Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Hello everyone and welcome to Episode 7 of the Med Mentor Podcast. My name is Dr. Tracye Lawyer and I’m an orthopedic surgeon, Boise, IDF.
Manuel: We’re just rolling strong with these episodes. We’ve got a really good one for you today. We’re going to have some good advice and tips and pearls from Manuel. We’re going to talk a bit more about the day. We’re going to talk about MCAT staff. We’re going to talk about interview staff. We’re going to talk about applications, all geared to my pre-medical student listener.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I hope you guys are really…
Manuel: I’m really enjoying these podcasts. I’m getting good feedback from everybody. So again, this is free. There’s no ads. I don’t like ads.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: This is totally free. So welcome Manuel to the Med Mentor Podcast.
Manuel: Thank you for having me. Absolutely. So we’re going to start with our first question.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: As always, it’s pretty easy. Just what year are you in medical school?
Manuel: I’m first year.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: First year. Okay. And how is it going?
Manuel: It’s gone. It’s good. There’s some… It’s hard, but we’re doing it.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Yeah. There you go. That’s the best way to say is we’re doing it. Any regrets at all?
Manuel: Oh. No. I don’t think so. I hope not.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So you’re deep into it. So yeah, I hope not. So, but good. And so tell me… So we’re going to start with… You’re kind of pre-med journey. And so tell me how it was for you. Tell me, was it pretty straightforward?
Manuel: Or is it… There are a lot of detours. Was there a lot of like…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: You know, trowel and air. What was your kind of experience?
Manuel: It was confusing because I didn’t have anyone to… But I knew… That went to medical school. Okay. No family members. I’m a first generation college student. Oh, congratulations. That’s awesome. So we’re just being able to now…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then I transferred my junior year from Purdue University to Arizona State. Okay.
Manuel: I transferred there. My brother was going there at the time. So I was… To Arizona State. Oh, nice. Okay.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And he’s also in med school with me. Gotcha. Oh, fun. And you guys…
Manuel: He’s a first year as well. Oh, it’s your tag team and you guys are doing it together. Oh, I love that. Good. Was this like a… You guys knew that you were going to do this? Or this is just kind of… The past just happened to go this way. We knew that we were going to go to medical school, but it was never… We didn’t think that we could get into the same school. Oh. That was definitely…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then we got a couple interviews to the same colleges. So my mom’s like, you guys are going the same school. I don’t care. I don’t care. So where are you from? From then. Or you from California. Okay. And then he went to Purdue as well. Or did he start at Arizona State?
Manuel: He started at Arizona.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it was Cole at Purdue. And he looks like he’s having fun. Yeah. And so tell me how hard was that transfer? Were you majoring in biology? Were you majoring in pre-med? What were you majoring in? Or did you have to switch stuff? How did the transfer stuff go?
Manuel: Yes. I was majoring in… I was majoring in biology at both places. But transferring… It didn’t take that much, but Arizona State didn’t accept my calculus class or something. From Purdue. Which is an engineering school. So I was pretty shocked that they didn’t accept my math from them. Oh interesting. Interesting. Yeah. So I can know it’s the only class that I had today. Okay. All right. Okay. And then so tell me like you could go in through undergrad and got your biology major.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So still kind of like I want to be a doctor. Did you know anybody who was a doctor?
Manuel: We do have a family friend who we met like not too long. Maybe a couple years. He’s a plastic surgeon in black hole. Okay. And so I’ve shadowed him and I would just text some of these questions about everything.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then I ended up working in the hospital as an ER tech. Okay. And this was during undergrad or after you got during undergrad. Okay. Okay.
Manuel: I did that by becoming EMT first. Okay. Yeah. So I was able to because everything was aligned during COVID. Oh, yeah. All our classes were online. So I went home and I did EMT course during my full course. Okay. So you were doing your undergrad stuff online because of COVID and then was able to do the EMT stuff. Yeah. Oh, wow.
Manuel: I was like, Oh, my, how was that? It was rough, but it was only it was like a crash for some sex. Okay.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: You can do anything for six weeks. And so what was the reasoning for choosing EMT?
Manuel: I wanted to. Okay. So that you have to get some experience before they let you come to. Oh, gotcha. Okay. So I was actually in. Okay. Thank you. Oh, thank you. I’m happy to have you here. Yeah. I hope you’re all right. Thank you. I’m happy to have you here.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I’m happy to have you here, okay?
Manuel: Okay. Okay. We have a couple of other things. Oh, I love it. I love you. I’m happy to have you on the team. I love you. Okay. I’m happy to have you. I love you. Well, this is like moving fast forward.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So did you, who got the interview? Do you guys get it at the same time? Did you get it? And then just go ahead, Mike.
Manuel: Also. I know.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then I got it.
Manuel: That’s so funny.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Who was born first?
Manuel: Oh. Yeah. By how many minutes, I guess. So. Yeah. But while I was working as an in T at the water park, we are land lord, like, decided to sell our environment.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And did it tell you?
Manuel: It wasn’t communicated the best. Oh.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so we had like, I don’t remember the amount of time to be like moved out and.
Manuel: Yeah.I guess I could have, but I’m not going to stay there. At least it’s right a year. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So we.
Manuel: It’s crazy. Like sitting in our car. Oh, my. Yeah. Yeah. You know, allows, and they should not caddons, maybe even three terabits if you can
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: get your services?
Manuel: Okay. Yeah. That would be awful. I’m a. I’m. Yeah. Wow. If you get, if you get pil problems that’d take time and you can me, you know, if you are in science, you could do better. Don’t be. Yeah. I’m not doing anything.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: who you shaded was this at like Purdue or was this somewhere else or at home in California?
Manuel: Okay.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Why call it?
Manuel: It’s a damn bill. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so tell me, I guess about that experience because I tell, try to tell a lot of my pre-medical
Manuel: students that shadowing is super, super important.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So how was that?
Manuel: It’s kind of, because I know him outside of it. Oh, yeah. Scary because as a pre-med, you don’t have anything to stand on really. Yeah. You’re not even a med student yet.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So you don’t know what questions to ask or you don’t want to like step on toes. So you really have to be.
Manuel: My advice with that would be to don’t act like you know everything, even if you are like that smart because you’re going to miss out on a lot of good tips or. Whatever from this surgeon or doctor. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And but also don’t be scared because they wouldn’t have invited you there.
Manuel: They didn’t want to ask them. Sure. Oh my yeah. That’s really, really good advice because I think a lot of pre-meds are like, I don’t even know where to wear.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What do I bring? What do I, you know, like.
Manuel: Oh. You know, like, I’m like, well, ask them what you need to wear. Like when people shadow me, I’m like, well, we were scrubs and clinics. So, but don’t. I don’t. I don’t know.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Do you always want to come as like business attire unless they tell you differently, right?
Manuel: But like bringing always bring like a notepad or laptop or something like that just to be able to take notes. Just having.
Manuel: Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so were you able to like just go and clinic with them? Do you do?
Manuel: Oh, you did. Okay.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So you got your observing the OR. So that’s.
Manuel: Good. Going into anatomy at school, it’s you don’t know if you’re going to action like, like being in the box. Yeah. I had a great time. Oh, good. So, grosses anatomy was a pretty good one for you or a pretty good course. The lab. Yeah. The lab. The exams were. The exam. No. You don’t. No. You don’t. No. just neuro MSK thick. We do, we kind of work on parts of the body that align with that content.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So yeah.
Manuel: In lab you’re identifying all these crazy structures and bangs and arteries, nerves, everything. You wouldn’t see everything. Everything, yes.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then that will be…
Manuel: on a practical, the whole tie is stringing around a certain structure.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it’s not like, what is this?
Manuel: It’s third order. Everything is at least third. Different fourth-mid order.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Yes, yes. Like what would this innervate? What muscle or what does it do? If I cut this right here, what would that?
Manuel: Exactly. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. No, I think that’s really like good to understand is because you have all these cadavers that you have a group of… folks that are working on and you’re dissecting it so the students are dissecting and these aren’t the teachers dissecting it. And then you have to go to other people’s… bodies and yes. And you don’t know, some people dissect it. Awesome. And some people you’re like… Awesome.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then you have to see it on the… they use it for the exam. So then you’re like, oh my goodness, what is this? What is that structure? You better know it through and through.
Manuel: I love it. Yeah, I love it. They try to do good, where they try to make it…
Manuel: You can see the relationship of it and they try really hard.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So it’s not that bad, but it’s that distressful.
Manuel: Yeah. I would say the practicals are a lot bit stress-wise. It’s just like if you know the stuff on the practical, you know the room. So you don’t restate your room. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Okay, let’s go back. So we’ll go back to…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Tell me about like…
Manuel: after kind of undergrad. Tell me about just like the idea of…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: getting into medical school. Like what was the process? What application-wise?
Manuel: MCAT-wise for you. Okay. I ended up taking two gap years. Okay.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I thought it was going to be one, but the application process is so long. It’s
Manuel: basically two years waiting for your responses. Yeah. But I’m sorry. Yeah, no. Yeah. So just tell me like so like did you…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: or did you take the MCAT like the first time? Like did you use a course for it?
Manuel: Like that. Yeah, I don’t… I think people don’t realize like when you go into undergrad, it’s like you get accepted and then you go pretty quickly. Whereas medical school, yeah, it’s a… It’s not like you do the application and then you get accepted. There’s like… You got to do the MCATs. You got to do your personal statements. You got to do all this stuff in your… application, then you got to do the interviews and then you got to wait until the cycle goes through.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so I guess kind of go through that a little bit. Yeah. So the… I took twice. Okay. First time did not do good at all. Okay. And was that like what do you think? Was that like a… Were you studying on your own? Did you do it more?
Manuel: On my own. Yeah. Is you offering the Princeton Review that give you all the books for free if you’re
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: bio or you say you’re going to take the MCAT within a year?
Manuel: Oh, nice. And they give you the online for that. But I didn’t use that as much and I was focusing a lot on content. Okay. During the first one. Yeah. And that was my problem.
Manuel: I think in order to do well, you have to practice questions and non-s… Okay. That’s really good. Yeah. Absolutely. Even if you… Because I feel like you spend more time on content because there’s so much… Sure.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And you feel like you don’t know anything. Yeah. Because you did those classes like…
Manuel: Oh, maybe the beginning of your freshman year of college. So once I started practicing…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And using U-Worlds. Okay. And they still have that because they did have it. I’m like,
Manuel: it’s like I’m ancient, but they had that when I was doing it. Yeah. Okay. And they’re harder.
Manuel: I think they’re harder questions than MCAT. Oh, okay. That’s nice. So if you can get those, you’ll do okay. You’ll do good. But I also think people will take… I think it’s a lot more slightly as the analysis reading section. Okay. And it’s just passages. But… Oh, I remember those. Crazy passages. That’s what we’re talking about. Art. And if you’re good at that stuff, then go for it. But it’s rough. Yeah. You have like 10 minutes per passage and answer like four questions.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I started doing that every day because I was not doing good on cars. Okay. And there’s a
Manuel: solution that helped me is looking at the first sentence of… Every paragraph and the last sentence of every paragraph. Okay. And then summarizing or writing it down. And because it’s timed. That’s the hardest part. That’s hard.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then I would just like go on all these different websites, Jack West and
Manuel: Your World, even the Study Bank. From A and C. Okay. Yep. And I would do those every day. Okay. Before I start studying like the sciences, I would do like five of those.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: How many questions do you think you were doing like a day? For all emitter for cool.
Manuel: For that. Yeah. Not for all emitter. For cars. Probably. I think I would do… 10 passages a day. Which is like realistic of the exam. Oh, nice. Okay. Yeah. But yeah. So I… That was actually ended up being in my highest score. Good for you. Nice.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And that’s my biggest flex. Yeah. That’s the roughest part. I think because we’re good at science.
Manuel: Yeah. Absolutely. But reading college.
Manuel: Maybe not so good. Maybe not so good. But after that, I started writing all of my hundreds of essays for schools. I think. Like to like 20. Okay. And were they everywhere? And everywhere in the US? Were they just kind of…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Did you pick a region or how did you plan?
Manuel: Okay. Mostly. I mean some places like I just didn’t want to go because it was too cold. Sure. Something like that. And then through EDMC, they give you like a… I mean you paid for it. But it’s… It gives you all the stats of the average matriculant. Oh, nice. Okay. So closing the average MCAT, average DQCA. Yada yada. And so I use that to also try to gauge my scores. Oh, nice. That seems like a good resource is the A and C. Okay. Okay. I don’t remember what it’s called, but they’ll definitely, if you’re signed up through A and C for anything, you know that. Oh, nice. Yeah. Okay. And that process is a long time to write all of the essays and everything. Oh, yeah. So you really focus on the end cat. Yeah. I wish that I started writing my personal statement. Maybe like, oh, just a little bit before you start studying. Like every day. Because you’re going to want to change it.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it’s really hard to go like deep and try to figure out, okay, why are you like really
Manuel: deep? Yeah. No, I think yeah. And that’s a good, good segue because I want to talk about the personal statement because I think, so you said a couple things. So you really want to make it deep. It can’t be very super for Sean has. To be about you, obviously, and why you want to be doctor. And it can’t be the generic, I just want to help people, right? That’s not going to fly. You could die in a thousand other jobs. Exactly. But not this one. And so, and so it sounds like you changed your personal statement for each
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: school or like, or did you keep your personal statement?
Manuel: So. I kept my personal statement. Okay. But for my the secondary essays, all that. Yeah, that’s a crazy beast. Yeah. Talk about the secondary. So the secondary is after you do your first application and then they want to hear more. It does that sound about right? So sometimes you’ll get. Rejected like off the jump. And you don’t get a secondary. Okay. But the thing is, my secondaries, they send them to you and you pay more. Like you pay for the. Primary application and then the secondary. Wow. So you really got to gauge like, do I really want to go here? Right. Because I’ve got to pay $75, $80 maybe. Wow. And then I have to write five more essays. Oh my goodness. You really got. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I definitely cross them off my list.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So tell me if you can remember, tell me maybe for our pre medical students, what are some of the
Manuel: questions like, do you remember some of the questions from the. secondary that they asked of you? It was kind of giving examples of things that you’ve done.
Manuel: Some were really out there like UFC’s applications. Did you? No, I didn’t. Yeah. I didn’t go to USC is I wish I like would have watched videos because if you look it up, sometimes podcast or YouTube videos will have. Pacific Dean, Dean of admissions. Oh, nice. Okay. What they’re expecting. Oh, that’s cool.
Manuel: Get resources free. Yeah, they didn’t have that when I was going through. But the Dean at USC is very, very clear that she does not want. Very poetic and writing style. She wants straight up answers and they’re really like, we overthink.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And everything is supposed to be difficult. I mean, it’s been difficult thus far. Yeah. But it’s like, what would be your nickname or what’s your nickname? And you’re like, okay, is this a true? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And stuff like that. It’s just that’s interesting. Yeah. So you really have to, they’re all different.
Manuel: They’re all different. And then one will ask you like how you would solve world hunger to like. Boy. Oh, wow. Yes. But how, yeah. Kind of how you would deal with that. Okay. It’s a lot. That is a lot. Early. Yeah. Some of these things that give you questions before, like you can find their last. years questions on this doctor network. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yep. And they’ll give you like a bunch of it. But don’t go on Reddit. Don’t go on Reddit. That’s what I. Heard a lot is that don’t go on Reddit. I had that student doctor network. It wasn’t as I went on there recently. And it’s like, there’s a lot of stuff on there, a lot of. I don’t remember being that many, but it was super helpful because there’s like a pre-medical. There’s a there’s a medical. There’s even like residency stuff, fellowship stuff. And then they even. have like dental or other component completely different stuff. So yes, I really, I think they
Manuel: did a good job where you can just kind of look through and people are saying, yeah, don’t apply. here. Yeah. Yeah. Although and people will talk about like people create spreadsheets and stuff. Like you type in when you’ve got your interview announcement. Or when you got rejected. And it puts it on like this whole graph and it’s like, okay, I should be expecting it. Yeah. Anytime. Okay. Okay. That’s really good to know. So. You applied to about 20. How many interviews do you think you maybe just went to where you’re like, okay, I’m serious about these schools.
Manuel: Honestly, I applied with the hopes of just getting in anywhere. Yeah. And it wasn’t, I felt like it wasn’t after I submit my applications. It wasn’t my choice.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So whoever, send me an interview, I was, I was going, you’re good. So I did Idaho, Montana, Colorado.
Manuel: All the comms, all of the awesome. Okay. And then I applied it in D also, but I think I only got one. But I was already got the interview. With my brother. Gotcha. See, we’re good. Yeah. And so tell me about like, when people were like,
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: well, should I do D or MD? What do you, what would your advice be? What would you tell them? I think if you read up on osteoclavic medicine and you actually enjoy
Manuel: it and consider yourself, because it’s a whole nother. Course that’s a consistent thing throughout your first two years. So it isn’t like added workload. Right. And if you. Can see yourself doing it and you align with the values of osteopathic medicine, then apply there
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and in D because in these.
Manuel: The same thing without the osteopathic. Exactly. Exactly. And I did MD and again, I didn’t know about DO stuff until I came out of practice and then kind of. Or came out of all my training and then I had some DO’s and I was like, oh, so tell me what you guys do, you know, differently. And so it seemed like there was just an extra component of it. So it was. It was pretty much the exact same thing though, but with the extra stuff. Right. And like some, we have some people will be taking the comets, which is the DO. But if you. You want to do something really competitive. So do the US know. Okay. Perfect. And so then tell me,
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: so you get your.
Manuel: interview. And so we can start with icon where you go now. Tell me how do you prepare for it? Did they give you any resources? What. Did you kind of look to to be like, okay, well, you got your foot in the door now. So. Yeah. Well, I would like look at that student doctor network. Okay. And you’re looking at a bunch. interview questions. So they can really just ask you anything. Look over your application. Again, because I forget what you said when they’re going to ask about it. Yeah. able to talk about your shortcomings and maybe things that you mistakes and because they will bring those up because they want to see how. grown from that. That’s really good. Yeah. They I know a lot of people will ask about the gaps,
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: right? They’re really big on like, why do you have this gap? What did you do?
Manuel: During this gap kind of thing. So that’s really good. Yeah. Also with the interview, I feel like you’ve already done. You’ve talked about yourself for. Months running these essays. It should be like easy. The hardest part is it being like nerve racking because it’s your future. But it’s really just a conversation. Yeah. And once you bring it down to that level, then it should be good.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And did you have any interviews where it was either one on one with faculty or did you have like a panel of folks? Have you have any interviews of those?
Manuel: I had one with just one on one and then another one was two. Okay. There’s like a faculty member and a doctor or doctors that works at this. Gotcha. Okay. All right. Yeah. And I don’t I feel like with the. Two people with more people it is harder. Yeah. Because you’re like, but you’re on a screen. You did them on the screen. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Yeah. It’s you don’t know if you’re like looking at the person or addressing so you’re trying to get everyone involved. Yes. Relax. Just relax. Just relax. Perfect. Okay. Let’s let’s kind of go back a little bit. So tell me for you think the pre meds that are struggling, right? Whether that’s self doubt, like I’m not smart enough.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: I can’t do this. Can’t do that. What kind of the device would you give them for confidence for?
Manuel: Keep on trying when they hit these walls.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: How would you how would you kind of advise them? I think I think it also I think it goes back to what I was just saying that you’ve done it. Like you you you just need to figure out. How to help yourself. So whether that be changing your study habits or starting a study group,
Manuel: learning from other people. Because that. Does help if you’re just in your room, standing by yourself and you’ve never said these words out loud, it’s going to be different when you’re on the test. Sure.
Manuel: Also as a first generation student, I kind of just I really valued it. So when I was oh exhausted and. Up all night doing all nighters and studying my butt off, I just I had to remember that it was a blessing that I’m here. Yeah. Like just in college, I’m. People don’t get this opportunity. Yes. And and especially once you get to med school, it’s like, oh my god, this is ridiculously hard. But you. Even lucky to be here. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. You need to just. Yeah. No, I think that’s really, really good. Do you have any. Different study habits from undergrad to now being your first year like, did you change your study habits for the volume that was involved in. School or was it pretty much the same? So looking back, like college, I was, I did not have to study as much. Mm hmm. I kind of just like transferred my study habits from high school because I was doing all that
Manuel: I’d be and whatever. Oh, yeah. A lot of courses already.
Manuel: I don’t know. I don’t know. There’s nothing that’s medical school.
Manuel: But you really. Have to be able to pull out high yield information. And that’s my problem is. I think everything on the slide is just like because you’re scared. You’re like, they’re going to ask me. Yeah. They’re going to ask me what chromosome this is on. They might actually, but you need to just be able to pick out high yield information. So I’ve been, I’m still working on that. Yeah. But it’s definitely the strong suit of some of my peers. So they get through studying more effectively and quicker. Okay. But I just repetition repetition and practice questions when you can find them. Notebook LM is an app at our school. Had downloaded on our iPad and you upload the slides from your lecture. Okay. And then you say generate me some quiz questions. That’s really. cool. Is that like an AI thing or is that something? Okay. And it’s called.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: It only comes from those schools. Okay. Is it only through your school? Is it something like?
Manuel: Yeah. Like it’s just now. It’s just an. Oh, okay. Oh, that’s really cool. Or not. Because our school just give us subscriptions to things. Okay. Gotcha. That’s really cool. Tell me about.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So do you and your twin, do you guys study the same? You study together? You guys in different study groups? Do you study alone? What is your kind of study habits? So we study.
Manuel: Separately once in the time. But in our own house, like I not a great group study. Yeah. I feel like I get sidetracked. I like to talk. Sometimes. And then we end up focusing on something that someone else doesn’t know. You know that part. Yeah. You’re kind of wasting time. Yeah. So we’ll. I love that. Because I’m not a group study. You’re like, I’m like, I’ll help you. But like, I gotta get retained my stuff. Yeah. And I did.
Manuel: I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t know. That’s great. But yeah, we study separately,
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and then we’ll reconvene after a lot of us. Yeah. Do you get.
Manuel: Doesn’t make any sense. Oh my goodness. We’ll get it. And I won’t. Or vice versa. And then it works. Yeah. Well, that’s good. That’s good.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then tell me a typical day for you.
Manuel: Right now, you’re, it sounds like you’re in the cardiology block.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What time are you waking up? Are you studying in the morning? Are you going to classes? And then doing something fun.
Manuel: Studying like what would be a typical day for you. So I’m the kind of person that doesn’t go to lecture unless it’s mandatory. Yeah. I can’t fast forward and rewind in person. And I have to hear sometimes what they say like four times. Yeah. So I, and I studied late at night. I mean, later in the day to late. Yeah. I’m not very much morning person.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I wake up at probably.
Manuel: 11. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is good to hear because there’s some people that are like what I call night owls. Like I’m a super early person early morning. But I fall asleep pretty early in the evening. So I’ve got to get my studying done in the morning. That’s my prime time. But that’s great because there are people that are like, you know, you think. of doctors and you’re like, Oh, they’re up it. They’re up at five a.m. and this. Well, not everybody is. I mean, as a surgeon, yes. Yes. Yes. So but I think this is really good. Yeah. I think working in the hospital because I work nights there. Really. And that messed me up for a while. Yeah. And it’s crazy. But that’s. My entire now I’m only. Okay. I can. I’m a lot more awake during that. Those hours. Yeah. Interesting. But yeah. I’m. mandatory. It just sucks. You really got to gauge studying earlier. If you have a mandatory
Manuel: eight and one. Gotcha. And so. All the lectures aren’t like you everybody like would there be a hall of no students in the lecture? Yeah, it’s like most. Oh, really? At least I think when I because I try to start at the. beginning of this semester. Yeah. I tried to start going in the morning. I’m like, I’m going every day. I’m going to get there and like. I’m like, oh, there’s only like 20 people. Oh my. Wow. Yeah. But there was a lot more during the first. Sure. Sure. Yeah. After a week, I was like, I’m exhausted. I can’t do this. I can’t do this. Well, I mean, it’s important to find out the best way to learn for you. Like to me, I can’t. listen to lectures. I can’t retain it very well. So either I’ve got to like read stuff or look at stuff while they’re, you know, maybe like a transcript of it, but you just have to figure. I think that’s like a really big thing. If you can figure that out in undergrad,
Manuel: then I think and you want to go to medical school, I think that’s really helpful to do that. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so professors just read.
Manuel: Just slides. So you could do that at home. Yes. And that’s true. It’s a lot of information. So they’re just reading to you sometimes. Yes.
Manuel: That’s crazy. Well, tell me about the being an EMT and just kind of the jobs that you, the job that you had, how was that like the. Fuel to get you going into medicine. Like what was the fuel for you where you’re like, yes, I want to be a doctor. I’m sold. I think I’ve always wanted to. I feel like that happens with most people. See them and you’re like, I want to be.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So that’s why good. Yeah. And I feel like you get so deep into it by the end of your or, I mean,
Manuel: just going to college. Mm hmm. You’re so deep that it’s, you really have to make the decision early. Yeah. Yeah. Unless you want to do science, like be a scientist. Or something with a biology degree. Mm hmm. So working in the hospital, though, was definitely it added to my already. You’re just passion to do it. Gotcha. You get to work with the doctors, you work with the nurses. You really get to see everything and you’re like in the center of it. Yeah. Because you do the, it’s called HUC, like health unit coordinator. Nice. So you sit at the big desk in the middle of the ER.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And you’re calling cardiology, page and cardiology is during the STEM.
Manuel: You’re running in the room and running a
Manuel: I stat for on instance.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then you come back and you’re like, Oh, the cardiology is back. And it’s just like,
Manuel: you’re going. Oh, it feels good. Yeah. You’re not even adopting it. You’re not even adopting it. And then you see the doctor. Yeah. It’s just like. Chill. Yeah. And he’s like, all right. Let’s run a code. Yeah. And then you get to CPR as a tag. That’s pretty cool. Yeah. So you’re going to do a lot of like.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: You’re in it. You’re in it. Yeah. So. And how long did you do that for?
Manuel: Like two years. Two years. Oh, yeah. So you had some really good experience before. That’s great. Yeah. I did scribing, which I think is also I think probably your experience is probably we’re scribing you just kind of go in with the doctor and then you’re learning stuff. But you’re just kind of like typing or doing what you need to. But what you’re what you did. Sounds like fun. Oh, it was really. Yeah. I recommend it. My brother did scribing for a little bit. And then. He worked as a tech user. He likes the tech stock. Yeah. Okay. All right.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And you do take one and stuff and you do that in medical school. Like, and you’re like, all right.
Manuel: I know how to do this. I’m good. Well, good. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn’t matter. I’ll tell you, as it worth it, surgeon, I look at the top and if normal.
Manuel: Yeah. Perfect. I learned this at one point and I’m good. So I’ll give it to my colleagues. So that’s that’s awesome. Well, good. We talked about so much. The applications, everything. So with your doing doing the tech stuff, are you thinking about your
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: what are you thinking about? What kind of specialty?
Manuel: I like ER, but I like surgery. General probably just I don’t know. Being seeing the inside of the body. Is the craziest thing. And I just loved it. The brain was I can never do neurosurgery. It’s way too long. But if it wasn’t, then I would do it.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: When we held a brain, it was just it was more impactful to me than the heart. Like, I think very
Manuel: lucky to be able to. Yes. I think a lot of people, when I went through anatomy, I knew I wanted to be going to surgery, but gross anatomy, I was just like in off. Like of our body. And you know, and that was just structurally, right? Because you’re dissecting cadavers and people who’ve donated their life to science.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it’s not even the functions and all the chemicals and receptors. And you know, it’s like the basic
Manuel: anatomy structure. And I literally. I’ll never forget my experience. And it was just I was just in awe. I was very, that’s all I could say. Very much the brachial plexus all that you’re like, okay, so if I literally just like hit this right here, you this would have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s crazy. Yeah. It’s definitely, I, you know, I think a lot of people are like, oh, that’s gross. But I mean, I just it’s. Just amazing. And even as a surgeon, I always go back to that anatomy. So I’ll even go back and look at some of like online, some catabearic.
Manuel: It’s it’s so crucial. Yeah. The basis. It’s the basis for everything. Yeah. So that’s, that’s awesome. Yeah. So tell me like.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What kind of advice would you give? So when when people listen to this and pre-meds are like, okay,
Manuel: well, I’m in undergrad right now. Like, all this seems very. Right. And I’m sure it is for everybody, but is there like something organizational that they can do? I know you said start early, but.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What would you what would advice would you give someone who’s like so overwhelmed, so
Manuel: stressed about the whole process? One thing at a time. Yeah. Focus on one thing at a time. I know I said to do. Your personal statement during your before you study, but that’s still one thing at a time.
Manuel: I am a big checklist person.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So and it makes you feel like you’re doing something when you’re writing a checklist.
Manuel: I love checklist. Yeah. So you write I write out crazy checklist and that’s what you’re going to do for the day. Do it in this. Order if you don’t, then make sure you just are doing one of them at a time. I used to work in high school at like some fried chicken wing place. Yeah. My boss, I was getting overwhelmed there because there’s a dozen tickets and it’s take one ticket out of time. Everything goes so much more smoothly. Yeah. You’ll be less overwhelmed. Don’t think about the next thing. Just finish what you’re doing. Yeah. That’s great. Did you have any mentors going through it? I know you talked about the plastic surgeon. Did you have anybody else like whether it was faculty or somebody else that was encouraging you and your brother and you know, did you have anybody like that? So it’s kind of hard. To have a mentor at both schools because I did transfer and it was like just right when
Manuel: we’re getting in there. So I did. Get make a lot of connections with doctors at the hospital that I was working with. Oh, I bet. Yeah. So I shadowed an internal. Dr. Karan. She is. She was just great. You just asked about everything. She’s so nice and she really just told me, no, you need to do this.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And this don’t do this. And like you need to focus on the endcat right now. I stopped working there and I focused only on the intent. Good.
Manuel: A problem. Yeah. Working and trying to study because I had my books at work, but then a patient would go, they’re like, Oh, Manny, run over here.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I’m like, there’s, you can’t do it. Yes. So I just had to take a break from working and focus.
Manuel: I moved back home and I focused. Oh, yeah. Good for you. Bon team, but some other doctors, mostly doctors, for mentors. That’s great because sometimes you don’t, you don’t necessarily pick them. Mentor. They kind of pick you. And so I think it’s talk about like, well, I need a mentor,
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: some people with students who talk about need a mentor and they’re like, what’s the good quality?
Manuel: I’m a mentor, you know, and sometimes they’ll just pick you and those people who are willing, I think, to give information and just to kind of say, yeah, don’t do this. Do that. Like I’m trying to say. You know, I’m trying to save you time or headache or stress. I think those are very good mentors.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I think that you can lean on them a little bit more, whereas some are going to be kind of like.
Manuel: Yeah. And not, I mean, doctors are normal people. Yes. There’s some not very nice people. Yes. They’re not everyone’s going to be very receptive to you. Yeah. And questions. So you have to just ease your way in there. Yes. Just try to sneak in there
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and then the light like they’ll kick you up. Yeah. Absolutely.
Manuel: No, that’s great. And so tell me what is something you wish you knew before you started this whole pre-med journey? What I wish I’d be. Anatomy. Yeah. No, I wish that you can’t really explain to someone how hard medical school is. And before. As a pre-med, you’re like, oh, it’s going to be so hard. Right. It doesn’t encompass how difficult it actually is. And I’m not trying to discourage. Yeah. No, I mean, this is real talk. So yeah. You can’t expect like there’s nothing you need to have no expectations because it’s going to far exceed your expectations. On everything, it’s difficult. It’s rewarding. Just being able to watch a show like the pit or Grey’s Anatomy out. Yes. And then you’re like, oh, you could diagnose them before. Yeah. I got this. Yeah. So it’s fun. I just. It is your whole life. Yeah. So I hope that people that are applying know that it encompasses.
Manuel: You’re entire life. Yeah. This. Not a part time thing. You can’t work while you’re in medical school. I know people like try to do that. Some people have families. Even that is just hard. Right. It’s hard. So, but I mean, it’s true. Like you got to just stop everything and focus. It’s very rewarding. You don’t see it. Initially, but you’ll see it in little increments, right? Like whether it’s test stuff, whether it’s your own growth with education and knowing like, oh, I. Remember that. Oh, I got this. Like my brain is actually can retain this stuff. You know, like that stuff was like, okay, you know, or what I thought was really hard.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Just got it. And I think those are like those little things, you know, one thing at a time, right?
Manuel: It’s that’s super important, but also to celebrate those little wins, I think is really, really. Important because it’s a marathon. It’s but yeah, it’s I want the these pre medical students understand just like it’s a process to get in and then it’s. Really hard and then every year is going to be different. Your second year is going to be different.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So you’re going to know your study habits, but then you’re going to be introduced to it a whole
Manuel: another different stuff, right? Because. Body is complex. Yeah. And then no tellers and drugs that are like, oh, yeah, we don’t use this one anymore. Exactly. Not using it. You should know that. Yes. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What is the hardest part now as a first year in the school?
Manuel: The hardest part is to keep going. After each block, like you just. We just finished in a row and that was a beast. Absolutely insane. And doing well on that exam, the final. You’re like, oh, wow, like that was I actually enjoyed it. Like, wow, I know a lot. Whatever. Then you come back and it’s like, all right. Like. This is five new lectures on Monday and you’re going to be here till five. Yeah. So.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And you’ve got to just not get.
Manuel: Burnt out. Yes. Get burnt out and then continue to go. Yes. I think that is so important because you are going to be exhausted after learning. Something to the depth, the core, the million layers that you go through and literally you may have two days off or a weekend. I don’t know whatever. And the next day. It’s like you get this big book. You get these big lectures. You got five lectures in a total whole movie. Yeah. And then it’s like, you got to reset. You got to figure out how to reset. It’s a whole mind. Such mindset shift. But I didn’t. Final. Like sleep. Like I will spend that Friday just sleeping all day. Like I do not. Or I try not to leave the house. I just wake up with a mic. I can’t. I’m done. I am. It’s that’s important to know. Now I. Tell people that’s that’s first and second year and it’s the book stuff and then you’ll get into
Manuel: third and fourth year and then it’s going to be the clinical stuff and you’ll still be exhausted. It’s just going to be a different type. Of exhaustion. So but yeah, the first year is tough. But the keep going is really important because that’s where a lot of people quit. Right? It is in the first year where they’re. I can’t handle this. I can’t do this. I don’t maybe do it on the support for it.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So what’s leaves me and my other question is kind of what helped you stay resilient when facing certain
Manuel: setbacks like it was. Family for you. Is it friends? Is it just going and going for a drive doing your own thing? What has worked for you? I definitely need. My time alone just driving or going to the gym or something like that. But knowing that my brothers also like doing this and he’s. Suffering to is like all right. It’s helpful. All right. I’m glad you feel that way too because I you can’t explain it to anybody that’s outside. Yes. You can and they could be there for you and but it’s not going to feel the same as. They don’t get it. Correct. So make friends in medical school. People to talk to and. Yeah. When you realize you’re all suffering. So if you think of like I know there was a ham. Like my medical friends that I was in medical school with who I thought oh my gosh they’re so smart. They get it. They just you know and it was that.
Manuel: Bad thing where you compare yourself and then when you talk to them they’re like that was that test was so hard. You’re like oh you thought so too. Okay you’re suffering too you know but I think that’s really important is that everybody’s kind of in doesn’t matter where you came into medical school. You guys are all the same playing field now. Like where you’re learning the same material you have the same stuff thrown at you but it’s really important to talk to people. Yeah I always ask like how do you. Hurry soon. Yeah. Like what are you doing. And if I like what they’re doing then I’ll try to shift to that a little bit. Yeah. Fully commit to it because you might lose yourself. Trying to just figure out their trust. Correct. Correct. But it’s good to know. I think you can get some other tips from your friends as well. Good. Okay so what skills do you.
Manuel: Think pre-medical students should start developing the four medical school. Socializing. Oh that’s a good one. There’s a lot of people that go to medical school in my opinion that. There’s very smart. Very smart. But when you have to you have to interact with patients. That is true.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And you have to do OSTIs like they give us OSTIs after
Manuel: our exams. So we’ll be studying for an exam. It’s exams like three hours and then OSTIs or whatever.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And you got to be able to go in there and be happy and nice and yeah.
Manuel: Be able to have a conversation with someone. So definitely just be a good conversation with I think. Yes and it’s ours and people are just introverts. I think that and there are specialties for introverts but you’ve got to branch out. If that’s not your thing go talk to somebody. Even talking to colleagues. You don’t want people to avoid you. Yes absolutely. That’s a really good advice. Okay this is our rapid fire question segment.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So one thing every pre-med student should start doing today.
Manuel: I don’t know if it’s rapid. It’s okay. No matter what phase they’re in. You will. Yeah. Practice practice practice. And have you fun. Yes. Just remember to have fun because this will always be here. Yes. I love that. Yes. Medical school will always be there. If you decide to take. One year off two years off I took seven years off in between undergrad and medical school. Enjoy your life beforehand. It doesn’t mean it’s going down the hill afterwards but it’s just. Enjoy your life. Yeah. Have some fun. Go travel. If you haven’t traveled do that. You will have time at school. Nothing. It’s doomed. Okay one thing pre-med students should stop worrying about. Everything. Yeah. Literally everything.
Manuel: Ross been in rock. Just. Try to enjoy your life and enjoy each day because you’re going to look back and it’s going to be wow now I miss medical school. I miss college. Yeah. Because I miss college and now I’m in medical school and I’m going to miss this. Yes you will. I mean they’re certain when I look it back I had a really good experience. Some people didn’t but when I look. Back like I really enjoyed medical school. I mean the stresses that I have now are very different being in practice when I was in medical school. Now do you look at it but there’s a lot of things that I learn. I learned in medical school that I do now as a surgeon talking to my patients but I think also being true to yourself in that and not changing who are super. Important because you remember you have to talk to other human beings and you have to be yourself
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and people really really appreciate it and appreciate your honesty and they’re here they’ll trust you.
Manuel: You know so you have that kind of power to help them so I think just A being a really good human being and keeping that as you go through this process. It’s hard. It’s definitely. Hard because it wears on you. It does wear on you and I think you have to find that outlet whatever that is.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it’s a heavy job. You’re like you’re dealing with people’s lives. Yes.
Manuel: On a biological level like it’s absolutely not finances or anything like that. It’s
Manuel: you need to be mentally strong. Yes absolutely. One name one that you think underrated activity that strengthens a medical student’s application. Activity volunteering with something that you actually care about. Yeah something you’re like oh it’s check the box off. But that’s also. I’m gonna plug being an EAT again because I did volunteer work with our local like football team like P.E football. EAT for that. Oh wow that’s cool. So that’s and that’s another automatic volunteer. Yeah. I love that. Yeah don’t just check the box because I’ll probably ask you about that on your interview or something. So you want to be passionate about what you volunteer with. So that’s great. And then I know you came up with a lot of really good resources but for you one book or resource that helped you during your journey. There is this one guy and I can’t think of his name but he has a whole
Manuel: book on writing your personal statements and stuff like that. Oh nice okay. I’ll look for that’s fine. That’s fine. If you let me know I’ll put it in you know at the bottom up here and so.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And some motivational speakers like David Goggins and Eric Thomas because you’re you’re
Manuel: gonna need to find that motivation somewhere because you’re not gonna. Study for another 12 hours. Yes. But you need someone to pump you up a little bit. I like that. That’s really good. Okay and then last one so finish this. sentence. If you want to become a doctor remember blank.
Manuel: That when you’re in school and you’re doing your training. You’re getting older. Your nieces and nephews are getting older. And you’re gonna miss a lot of that.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: When you want to put off or leave a family that early like or not go when you have the chance to
Manuel: for an hour like stay next your hour. An extra hour is not going to make or break your exam school. And if it does then you didn’t study part of them or correctly. Yes. So. Enjoy time with your family and your friends and yeah. Yeah those moments you have so I think those that that is fantastic so.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What good advice I love this this is fun. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for
Manuel: for doing this. So. Alright you guys thanks for listening and we’ll check you at the next episode.
