Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Hello everyone, this is Dr. Tracye Lawyer with the Med Mentor podcast. I got a really good episode today. We’re on episode 6. We’re just cruising away.
Rav: I’m here with Rob. Hello, Rob. How are you? Hi, I’m good. How are you? Doing great. Thank you for coming on. Of course. I just want to jump right… Thanks for all the listeners. Hopefully this is helping you out. I’ve gotten really good feedback from a lot of pre-medical students that say this has been… just kind of a breath of fresh air and just listening to everybody’s journey and just where people have come from and just all the wonderful tips and pearls.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: I’m really, really excited. We’re just going to keep it going. Again, I’m Dr. Tracye Lawyer and I’m orthopedic surgeon in Boise, Idaho. I wanted to create this Med Mentor podcast.
Rav: Just for you guys. This is free. We’re not doing any ads. We’re not doing any of that crazy stuff. This is absolutely free. I hope you guys really benefit from…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So, thank you Rob for coming on. I’m going to start with my first easy question that I always do. What year are you in medical school?
Rav: I’m currently a first year. We just… We did our first block of spring semester, which was neuro. That was an insane six weeks, but who knows? Maybe cardio will be just as insane. So, yeah, I’m just going to be first year. Perfect.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And how overall is your first year going? It’s been a lot. I will say obviously medical school is very difficult, very challenging. And I just didn’t think…
Rav: I would expect to be this challenged in a way, like my coping skills, my confidence was certainly rocked simply because of sheer volume of information.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And the amount of new information that we have to learn and kind of get under our belt was just overwhelming at first.
Rav: But I will say I feel like, especially after neuro, which was a really… Tough block and we can get into that later. I really discovered what works for me and also that I can do this. Like, my back was truly against the wall in that block.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I…
Rav: Currently feel like I’m much better equipped to tackle this next block. Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, I’m getting closer. So how many more blocks do you guys have than until your end of your… First year? Yeah, so I think we’re in cardio right now and the last one is respiratory. Okay. Sorry to do left the one. Yeah. All right. And then do you have plans for the summer? You doing research? Are you kind of… I’m just relaxing. I have no clue. I met with my advisor and he was like, you should absolutely make a plan for summer.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I have a lot of experience.
Rav: I would love to get back into research, but I would love to get my feet wet in clinical research. I did a lot of wet lab stuff in molecular biology research. So learning a new skill, I think, with… I’m not sure if I have to be super helpful for me, not just now, but in the future, if I ever, as a physician want to do research as well.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So currently my summer is very open. Well, good. Yeah. Good for you. So…
Rav: Let’s talk about your undergraduate experience. I think that you’ve had… Your experience is very, very different, but also I think that you’ve had the struggles, right, coming up in… to being a medical student. And I think it’d be nice for listeners just to hear kind of your journey and your life experience right now. Awesome. Yeah. So before even starting undergrad, I come from a… small town in California called Wilton, and I went to a pretty decent sized high school, but it was truly an echo chamber, in a sense, where I never really saw… people of different cultures, different backgrounds. And I felt like I came from very sheltered lifestyle, being in Wilton. And I was lucky enough to attend UC… to go to Riverside, which is an amazing, amazing college. I recommend anyone to go if they ever get an opportunity to go, but it was such a drastic difference from going…
Rav: My high school wasn’t super small, but it wasn’t super large either. But UC Riverside, it’s like 30,000 people on campus. Like every day was huge. On top of that, the biology major, which is what I was at UC Riverside, there was a lot of people in it, so it was easy to become quote unquote, drowned out if you were struggling. I was definitely learning, I was not the best at managing my time. You’re learning study techniques as well. You’re also learning to balance how to be independent, because that’s such a huge transition from being a kid where you have mom and dad to take you to school and help make your lunches. You have to take care of yourself in college. So, UCR was amazing in the sense that I felt like I developed a lot in my personal life. I felt like I had so many wonderful people from different backgrounds. Like I never met someone in the LGBT community at high school, but I met so many at UC Riverside getting to…
Rav: I felt like I felt like I really just pushed me to be better and to be more accepting as well. That’s great. UC Riverside was awesome, but academically I did struggle. As I mentioned, the time management was really tough for me. I dealt with a lot of anxiety. I think it was just fully… I had my parents to help me out, but at UCR I was alone. I was the only person there. My entire family was either Northern California or spread.
Rav: By the way, it’s not true. I know a lot of times other people’s anxieties tell them you’re not good enough, you’re not smart enough. That’s never the case. Sometimes when you’re not performing the way you want to. I felt like I was definitely happening during my first two years of UC Riverside. It definitely fueled that anxiety even more. I needed to learn how to overcome that. I was in my third and fourth year of training where I really, really learned. No, I can do this. I’m smart enough. I just need to figure out how to manage my time.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Did you have any anxiety in high school or anything? Or do you think it sprung up from a combination of being alone and having more responsibility?
Rav: I think it’s very normal. It is, yeah. People think they’re outcasted with anxiety and whatnot. I think this is great because it’s super normal. Especially with it, you’re going into a type A field. This is really important.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Is that something that just built up in college?
Rav: I think it was always there, but I just never noticed it because I had my support system, which is my family.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And obviously in college when a lot of people, especially if you’re moving.
Rav: I think it definitely got exposed to my parents. I think it definitely got exposed to my parents. I think it definitely got exposed to my parents. I think it was a very far from home. My parents live in Northern California. I used to have a head and said that. I also felt, I think I lied to myself, I am a little type A. But I didn’t feel like I was as type A as my peers. But now through my personal experience and my own journey and being in therapy, there’s nothing wrong with being a little different from everybody. But at that time when I was so young, I thought that was right. I thought that was wrong. If that makes sense. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so tell me how you were in pre-med undergrad and then tell me like you’ll.
Rav: We thought about being a doctor or it was just like you wanted to go in the kind of healthcare field.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What were your thoughts at that time?
Rav: Yeah, I think I wanted to become a physician. But then I also at that time, I think if you asked me, I didn’t really know what a physician did either. I think that was one of the few health careers that I knew about. Usually I learned about PA school. You can become a nurse practitioner as well. Over time I learned all the other different careers in healthcare. But for whatever reason, becoming a physician stuck, I just… I just didn’t know why.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And for anyone that’s applying to medical school, it is very important for you to know why you want to do this.
Rav: Absolutely.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I hear from even a physician that I was working with, Dr.
Rav: Nadell, he even emphasized that you should have a why going into this.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Right? And so in college, I think I knew I was attracted by becoming…
Rav: My sister is a physician and I truly thought, yeah, she was like Superman.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What did she do? Or what type of physician?
Rav: Yeah, she is a… She’s a pediatric cardiologist. That’s fantastic.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I believe she’s also involved in fetal intervention as well. So if there is a mom care…
Rav: …where the fetus might have a congenital heart or heart condition, my sister sees those patients.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And she’s also involved with the fetal intervention…
Rav: I believe you see San Francisco and she helps with the surgeons in that operation.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So it’s like a whole team of them.
Rav: There’s like a card of the russic surgeon. There’s an SDZ.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then there’s her who I believe through imaging techniques, she monitors the fetal health during the procedure.
Rav: That is an amazing feeling. I know she’s truly superman. Like she really is.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So she was a huge inspiration as well.
Rav: That’s really great. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so it’s just you and your sister then, your parents not in health care or anything like that.
Rav: No, my parents were… Originally from a rural part of India, they were from Punjab where they were farmers. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And my oldest sister is the cardiologist and my other older sister.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So they were just obstacles in undergrad. What would you tell kind of pre-medical students now? So they were going to pre-med.
Rav: Maybe you don’t know about being a physician. But they know that they’ve got to get the… Everybody knows like I’ve got to do the pre-med track.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So what would you kind of tell someone advice or like tips or maybe stuff that you did that…
Rav: Probably maybe wasn’t the best or what you did was like, yeah, that was a good decision. Yeah. Honestly, the one thing I wish I did was just reach out to any mentor. I felt like there’s many people you see are that… I wanted to reach out and help. I know there’s medical students on campus and there’s also even like… I think you see are also out of therapy department. Like there’s many… I’m not in need of any sort of support like that. But it would have been good.
Rav: I recommend anybody who’s struggling to just reach out for help. There’s nothing wrong in asking for help.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And if anything, that could be the catalyst that makes you just… Grow exponentially, right? So yeah, absolutely reach out. And I believe like in my personal dream, I don’t know if I talked about COVID.
Rav: Because I graduated during the… pandemic as well. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so that was really…
Rav: That’s crazy. Well, we all have our stories about the pandemic.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And with you guys, I think it’s all…
Rav: on your undergrad.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I think it’s just crazy how it’s kind of shut down and you guys had…
Rav: Had to like think on your feet and just figure out what to do next.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So yeah. So how was that… journey for you through the pandemic?
Rav: Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I think I kind of just touched on…
Rav: Like my last two years, I was doing very well academically. You can see my transcript of… constantly improving. I even got a wonderful research opportunity with the UC system where you could go to these reserves around California and do ecological… research.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I had that opportunity in the summer and I was super excited. And I kind of felt like, oh my God, all this hard work I put in.
Rav: I figured out all my kinks and I fixed… them and then the pandemic came in March. Which by the way, I remember when it came, I was like, this is not that big of a deal. Like we made a bigger deal and I felt like they did the same thing with… swine flu.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I didn’t think things were going to get shut down.
Rav: But obviously things did very fast and I remember packing my tiny little car with like my entire life. And…
Rav: my last quarter was March 2020.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So they just sort of shut everything down. And honestly, I was very upset that they did that.
Rav: But looking back, I don’t blame… the pandemic. I think that pandemic was very confusing time and I couldn’t imagine. Like research heads and program directors, like figuring out what to do. But yeah, so… they almost felt like the wind was taking underneath my wings. I was like, oh, I’m finally soaring. Like I’m figuring stuff out.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then this crazy life event just happened. And so tell me, so you were at your last quarter and then were you able to graduate or how did that…
Rav: like you were able to graduate that time.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then what did you do after that?
Rav: Like what… that seems like it just kind of halted your momentum with every feeling.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So what was the game plan or what did you kind of fail out to? So my original plan was like, I want to take the year studying for the MCAP, but I want to get my feet wet in some sort of clinical experience.
Rav: Because what I noticed about… like my peers at UCR that I felt like were doing very well is they got their feet wet in like being an EMT or being an MA. Sorry.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I felt like…
Rav: Wow. I feel like they’re just so much more prepared than I am.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So that was my original plan.
Rav: But obviously with the pandemic when I came home, I think with COVID people were hesitant to hire new people.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so a lot of the hospitals around me at that time were just not accepting anyone new for the MA positions,
Rav: CRI positions or EMTs.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I kind of understood.
Rav: I was like, I get… Like this is like a really infectious time and bringing in a new person who might not be familiar might be a little bit of a liability.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I understood at the time, but it just…
Rav: It definitely… I felt a little defeating because I was like, well, now my whole plan is just shoved to the side.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So that was really, really difficult.
Rav: Oh, wow.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then so what did you ultimately decide? So you went back to NorCal with your family. Did you just kind of help out your family? Or did you just study for the MCAT on your own? Did you take a course?
Rav: Yeah, so my first MCAT attempt I studied on my own and I tried to figure it out on my own. It was a crazy… Like looking back at it now, I wish I could go back and… This is not how you study. But obviously hindsight is 2020, so I did try to study on my own at first.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then after my MCAT attempt, it did…
Rav: I did not go well, but everyone’s first time doesn’t go well.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So anyone’s in that position, that’s completely normal.
Rav: Just figure out what went wrong.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then I also did take a job, my mom…
Rav: They were business owners. Their businesses were kind of shut down for a year.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so my mom and my dad, they’re awesome at saving money, so they could be a…
Rav: I don’t know how long this event is going to last.
Rav: I got my job in 2021, because COVID was still in huge waves at that time.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So that’s when I got my industry job.
Rav: Okay, gotcha.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So tell me about this job. Was this a great decision? Was it like, oh, what did I get myself into?
Rav: Tell us a little bit about… Yeah, so my first job, I was a tissue culture technician for an ag company. It was actually a cannabis company.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And cannabis at that time was…
Rav: It was just becoming very popular. It was just legalized in California.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And the company that I was working with, I was in the biotech site, 100%. So we were…
Rav: A company that could have…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I think they are doing pretty well, given the circumstances of how much… Was this a new company or had they been established?
Rav: I think they were kind of a… They established they had another sort of tissue culture lab somewhere else. I don’t know. But I think in California, that was their first lab or something. The details are a little fuzzy. I do not remember. But I remember being like, okay, so this is a job. This is what a nine to five feels like. This is what a paycheck feels like.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so I got to live that lifestyle for at least… And then I was like, okay, this is cool.
Rav: I’m making money. I can support myself. But I noticed very quickly, I was just not fulfilled.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And after my first M.K.A.T attempt, I was telling my friends, I do not want to do that again.
Rav: I need… I need a solid… Yeah. But my friends knew I was lying. You’re not done. I was like, I know. But I needed a…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And working full time made me realize, oh, I don’t like this.
Rav: Like, I don’t want to just work for a paycheck. I find no fulfillment in this.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And the towel that I threw down…
Rav: That was my pre-med journey. I just kept looking at it. Like, I wanted to pick it back up. Yeah. So, like, I was very grateful for that experience because it made me realize, hey, I still want to be a dog. I still want to be in healthcare, somehow. Yeah. Sometimes you got to walk away and then you realize, like, you know, whatever you’re doing, that’s not what I’m supposed to be doing. So, I’m like calling. Yeah. So, but I think it was probably a good experience for you. Absolutely.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then so, how long did you work at that job then?
Rav: Yeah. So, I worked there for about six months. I think. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then I got laid off because with new companies, that just happened.
Rav: Yeah. Unfortunately. So, there’s nothing personal, just a massive layoff.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I was, unfortunately, one of the newer high…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And at that time, neither me or my parents could comfortably front that nor did I want them
Rav: to. I was EMT school for my understanding. It was a lot of money around me. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then…
Rav: Board-certified autism technician. It’s the same thing as an RBT. Yeah. So, I worked with Kiddos, diagnosed with autism, ADHD, and I would be in the sped class. I was in the classroom sometimes working with a patient one-on-one, their technically patients. But I was called them my Kiddos. Yeah. They’re so fun.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I worked in that job for three years.
Rav: I’m really… I was like, I’m not a kid. I was like, I’m a little bit more certified. One, I think I love kids. At first, I was like, I would never want to work with kids. But kids are fun. They can be super fun. They can. They can lighten the mood a little bit and put things in perspective. Like, you know, you need to shadow, or you need to scribe, or do something like that.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Where were you looking? Like, were you looking at hospitals? Were you trying to get in clinics? Like, what was the avenue for to try to get these scribing positions before you started doing your other job?
Rav: Yeah. I just tried to reach out. After LinkedIn, I tried to just cold call to clinics around me. Right now, I would not recommend that. I would truly recommend anyone trying to network.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So if you know a…
Rav: I’m not a friend. Which is how I got my shadowing experience in grad school. If you know a friend working with a doctor, ask them. Just point blank, ask them. It might be scary. Like, oh, I don’t want to… Well, there’s somebody that seems to bold. But sometimes that’s what you just need to do.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So that’s how I got my shadow experience.
Rav: I just asked my friend who I knew worked with a bunch of doctors. Any of them would just let me follow them around. Which I did for like six months because I thought he was so fun. Awesome.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then, so this was the job for the autism.
Rav: Yeah, and so you did for three years. Yes, the job. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then so tell me like day to day stuff with like was…
Rav: I’m on a Monday through Friday.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Was it another kind of eight to five or how would a good this job work?
Rav: Yeah, this is similar.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So like I was in a school from like eight to three p.m.
Rav: Okay.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So we had the kids. And we had the kids with the kiddo.
Rav: We had the biggest thing that we were working on with this kiddo. Was making sure that he had coping skills to help cope with the stresses that might come with. He was very bright, very smart. But the thing that held him back was he would have these episodes of just discomfort and he would become very angry.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And just very uncomfortable.
Rav: That’s what I saw. He was very uncomfortable in these situations.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it was holding him back. And we really worked on how can we practice coping skills.
Rav: Which can help you thrive in this environment.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so that was the whole thing that I was working on for these past three years with him. And it was awesome.
Rav: He flourished.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it was kind of, it was sad because at the end I knew he didn’t need me.
Rav: But it was also awesome. But he didn’t need me anymore.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So it was amazing.
Rav: Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then after.
Rav: With that, I would work with another kiddo. With covid. We, I know my company kind of fine tune the ability to do like zoom appointments.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And that was great because.
Rav: Kid. Kid does love things on the computer and I really learned how to use the computer to reward them.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And to make this stuff feel fun.
Rav: Because any kiddo, if you have to tell them I need to hang out with them. with this adult for two hours, they’re gonna be like,
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: now why would I wanna do that?
Rav: It’s so natural.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So that was awesome. And he also graduated by my end there. And that was so fulfilling to see.
Rav: Nice. And…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so were you like doubling up on,
Rav: I know you said you tried to do the MCAT on your own, you’re like, don’t do that. I actually did that too. Like, right after undergrad and I was like, yeah, I can do. I’m doing this, I’m doing it on my own now. That was a bad mistake. I ended up taking a horse and just saving up the money.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: But were you doing something at the same time as this job?
Rav: You prepare maybe for medical school,
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: or was it just kind of doing the job?
Rav: You got some maybe some good letters
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and then did the MCAT and then applied? Or how did your, yeah, go for you? So at this point, I think I realized
Rav: I still wanted to become a physician
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: or something in healthcare, right?
Rav: I was still nervous because, you know, like bombing the… I was like, I’m not the best person. I’m not the best person at all. I’m not the best person at all.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so I actually saw my friend post
Rav: that he graduated from this master’s program
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and he was starting.
Rav: I’m not sure who he was at medical school as well. I believe it was but I drew school. But that’s what he always wanted to do.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And we kind of went through the same thing
Rav: where COVID kind of messed up our plans at the end of our undergrad experience.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And we graduated on Zoom. And I reached out to him and I was like, you know, dog.
Rav: Like, I remember we were both talking about this. But you accomplished it. Like, that’s awesome.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: How did you do that? And he told me about this master’s program in Claremont. And he was like, I felt very supported
Rav: by the program director of this master’s program. He’s very…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And he was very honest in terms of what you can accomplish and what you need to accomplish. And it sounded like the mentorship that that program director
Rav: provided was something that I needed at the time.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And his name is Dr. June Kim. And I remember reaching out to him,
Rav: saying if I can meet with him and he was happy to meet with me.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And we had a brief 15 minute conversation about like where I… And he was like, I think we can work with this. And we can help you become a doctor or anything else
Rav: that you want to be.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so…
Rav: Exactly.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so my last question to him was, how can I apply? How can I get started? And I applied, I wrote my essays, and I got into that master’s program. And so that master’s program, I think, was super formative and very critical for me.
Rav: I’m actually getting into medical school
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and I’m super grateful for it. How long was the master’s program? Was it a one year or two year?
Rav: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So it was a two year true master’s program.
Rav: I was kind of uncomfortable with like the special master’s program. Like the… I wanted to be able to do it the one year before medical school programs because I wanted a degree where I can pivot. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So with that degree, I went to Keck Graduate Institute and I…
Rav: … … … … …
Rav: … … … … … … … … …
Rav: … … … … … … … … … … … It’s like, it’s like, oh, this person’s established.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Like, I always want people to ask me questions, right?
Rav: Because that’s the only way that you’re gonna find out answers.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I always tell people that.
Rav: The worst they can say is, no. The worst they can say is, no.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then you move on. So I think that’s amazing that you even, you know, you’re just like, I’m gonna ask this person.
Rav: I’m gonna reach out to this person. I’m gonna email this person. I’m gonna go for it. I think that’s really great. Absolutely. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I do want to say it was terrifying doing that.
Rav: Yes. Like, I remember typing the email to. The next time I’m going to a doctor, like, I’m gonna go to a doctor and he could totally just think I’m psychotic right now, asking him about his program.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I’m just some random person.
Rav: But absolutely. I think you hit. the nail on the head with that. Like it’s very, very important to ask for help.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And that’s the one thing I hope people get from
Rav: is conversation. No, absolutely.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So after, so you did the
Rav: the the the master’s program and then tell me after that was it. Now you did your MCAT or you were doing it, you know, at the same time or how did that work. Kind of the transition to medical school. Yes. So I, after talking with Dr. Kim, I knew I wanted to start medical school right after because I’m also 28.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then my first. And I knew I didn’t want to delay it any longer than I had to.
Rav: Right.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so I actually studied during my first year of my master’s program.
Rav: Nice.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I remember sitting with myself. And I was like, okay, your first score was rough.
Rav: I had got a 4.98.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it was like, that was hard to see.
Rav: But now you’re going to have Dr. Kim, you’re going to have other people to support you.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And you can research what the best way is.
Rav: Mm hmm. Like, and I discovered eventually it was practice questions. Yep. I needed to do practice questions. There’s actually. If I do one studying for anything right now, do the practice questions because you know a lot more than you think you do. Absolutely. Yeah. I love practice questions. That was my go to. Exactly. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so I.
Rav: I remember just kind of sitting with myself and almost acting like this is my last shot. Like you need to give this your all. Yeah. In a sense.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I studied during my first year.
Rav: I took. A good chunk of my first summer. Just grinding for that test. I think I would wake up at like eight. Open my capitol books, try to read a section that I was.
Rav: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So it’s a discord community where you can basically in group chats ask, Hey, I don’t understand
Rav: circuits. Oh, wow. Yeah. Because of you, the parallel circuits.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: I remember just being like, does anyone understand this? And they would have a team of like volunteer tutors or I don’t know if they were paid or
Rav: not actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Hey. But that’s only because I asked for so much tutoring and help and I just kept at it because physics can be a very defeating subject because there’s just so much going into it. But once you just keep at anything it becomes fascinating and interesting. So I remember that was super super helpful and then I took my exam June 22nd and I remember I could not sleep the night before but I took it and I scored a 508 and I was happy with that. I was a little disappointed because I was scoring higher. My practice test but I remember thinking at the end of the day you jumped from your original attempt. So you should be super proud of yourself and then I applied with that my second year on my master’s program. Okay gotcha.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So tell me about applying now. So now you’re like did you have in mind where you were going to apply to? Did you kind of throw a big net out? Okay I’m just going to see wherever I can go in the country or what was your strategy?
Rav: Yeah so I think I just casted a wide net and it was really difficult because I… I just very well in my master’s program. I think I got a 398 towards my end. Congratulations. Thank you. That’s great. But I also understand if you saw my my undergraduate VP was a 3.1. So like obviously any medical school program director would be like what is going on. Right and so that was very hard for me to judge as well so that’s why I had… I just think if some schools were like okay you did well here but you didn’t do well here.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So that’s what I did. I applied to a handful of DO schools that I liked.
Rav: I was a little bit more pickier with those so I believe I applied to Turro, Michigan State and ICOM where I currently attend.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And ICOM I just I met one of the admissions…
Rav: people at my grad program and he was really awesome and the way he talked about ICOM I felt like this is a really awesome school to go to. I’m going to get a very good education here so I also… applied to ICOM and then that was really tough because your second year IKGI you’re working on your thesis. Oh yeah. And it is intense. I’ve never done it. I was in a wet lab and I ended up doing a computational thesis. I didn’t even know what computational biology was. It was a huge just period of learning and growth and making mistakes on top of just applying to medical schools writing secondaries. It was a really really busy part of my life.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So that was really really tough but I remember feeling very very fulfilled after doing that because it was so much work.
Rav: Oh wow that’s great. I’m going to go back a little bit so I think it’s really important that…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: when you people have this notion of being a physician you have to have straight A’s and I think a lot of us have struggled at some point.
Rav: You know where there’s graduate… undergraduate what not but having to… people are like we’ll have to explain this you know 2.7 GPA but I think you have to realize it. The admissions committee they’re looking at improvement. They’re looking at progress. They’re looking at you know and if you see that I think that’s super helpful.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I said we don’t be discouraged if you have…
Rav: like a low GPA or anything like that you know as long as you progress or even with your MCAT as long as you progress and they see that that’s what they want. You’re putting in the work and whatnot. So that’s really really…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: great to hear. Is your sister a DO or MD? Which way is she?
Rav: I believe she is class. She went to medical school at a very engaged in India and then she came back here. She took all the boards in like a year that was crazy to watch her do that. She like I think she also took them. There was a step two exam that was replaced by Oskis. Yeah. So she took that. I remember being her SP that was so… fun. And that was a huge primitive experience. But yeah, she like believed she’s classified as MD. I’m unsure. But she did take the USM leads. She probably is because if you… you do come from another country, you literally have to take everything in order to be MD. So that’s interesting.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So if you said you get MD and DO, is that correct? And so for you, was there… I think a lot of questions pre-meds ask her like, well, what’s the difference? Which one should I do? How would you answer that?
Rav: Do you decipher between the two? Yeah, absolutely. I honestly felt like I wish I had a DO student to talk to because I didn’t really know what osteopathic meds… medicine was. And the short story is it’s not too different from the M, my MD peers. I feel like they also take the same holistic patient approach. I have a couple friends going to Vermont, talk to them sometimes. I feel like our kurik limbs are pretty similar, except they don’t have OMM. Right? And… I don’t know OMM that just described it. Yeah, so I feel like Dr. Who’s gonna be listening to see how I described this one.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: How do you describe this? Exactly. So what OMM is… And it is basically using your knowledge of like the anatomy that you see in anatomy lab and the muscle fiber orientation. And what is specific… What structures are involved in your treatment area? So like we did a lot of spinal OMM recently and sacral OMM. So there’s a lot of ligaments involved in that area.
Rav: There’s a lot of muscle fibers on your spine but with specific orientations. So you have to take that into account
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and see if you can treat anyone with a somatic. And also, your body likes to live in a specific state but that’s because something else is causing a abdominal effect.
Rav: That’s great.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So like a great example of some people might be hunched over naturally.
Rav: Even though like you should be able to sit up straight and like that should be like your quote unquote not.
Rav: You can use your knowledge of anatomy and specific techniques to treat pain.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I had low back pain before going into ICONM and I feel like it’s been pretty much.
Rav: Eradicated. Just because my partners have practiced on me we’re learning all these different counterstrings and soft tissue techniques.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so that’s basically what OMM is.
Rav: I think I didn’t know what that was before applying and I would not let it hinder anybody for applying to DIO. Because I think it’s really cool the science that we’re learning. I don’t need to have the knowledge. I did MD and more Ellipathic stuff but I didn’t really have mentors from DIO.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I didn’t know about DIO actually until I graduated.
Rav: I didn’t realize that that was another step. But you don’t have to have that experience going into DIO school. I think that’s a big thing that people worry about. You don’t have this experience. That’s really good. I think it’s very cool. Those techniques are very helpful, very useful for patients. Yeah exactly. And then in terms of my systems courses and anatomy and neuro it’s pretty much the same. Because when I was struggling in neuro… I was like, oh my other friends were struggling in neuro.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So they were able to help too and we were learning the same things and stuff like that.
Rav: Nice. That’s great. So tell me, so you’re in medical school now.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So you kind of, if you were to do some self reflection and you said, you know, in the beginning you had like this a lot of anxiety when you were an undergrad. So that’s how it feels now. I mean, you still have, I mean, your parents aren’t here, but you still have that support system. Do you feel that anxiety creeping in sometimes?
Rav: Like, how have you grown through these last two… Yeah, honestly, I was really shocked that my anxiety would come back this way. Because at first I was like, I thought I dealt with you. Like, I haven’t seen you in a long time, but obviously with medical school.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And this is something that I learned with time. It’s…
Rav: It’s just a lot. Like a lot of work. You see another 50 slide lecture and you’re responsible for learning it and you see like five of those each day for like five days. It is a lot, but I feel like now I feel just comfortable with it. At first I was like, this is so much information. Like I can’t… It’s overwhelming. It is. It was. I know like, our school likes to use the pancake analogy of like, you have like 50 pancakes or something or like five pancakes a day to eat or something. It to me it felt like pancakes with someone’s hosing you down from a fire hydrant. So it was really tough. But I feel like now like, just like so in neuro recently, like I’ll just be… I know. I texted myself. I know. I texted myself.
Rav: I was just like, dog, like I think I’m gonna flunk out. And she’s like, I know there’s a lot of tracks. Like I like I learned very early on. Like neural just seems to be that course for everybody. Yeah. It’s extremely tough. But like full disclosure, I bombed both midterms.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And the fact that I bombed the second one was really, really defeating because I understood that material. And I thought, oh, I can’t do that.
Rav: I could take a lot of that.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I thought that it was a lot like I could talk about it with my friends. If someone was coming to the clinic, I felt like I could be like, oh, this is what’s going on.
Rav: I watched the pit. Someone came in with the potential. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you though. I love you too. I love you to come in the emphasize where you live. Mmmmm. That is how you are Digital. But at time I talked about myself and came out, but when I started them back there.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: with do you know what this is? So like, Anki works very well for me because Anki’s very much like a mini quiz every day, right? Like, do you know this definition?
Rav: Yeah. If you know this definition. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So that’s what I’m trying to do. And I’m trying to make a whole new definition how do you apply this, right? So I remember when I got that score back,
Rav: obviously I cried for like an hour or two. Yeah. Maybe three. You gotta help them too.
Rav: What. I just like you know this is like your nerves and the noise
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and all the self doubt because you can accomplish anything. So I ended up passing neural.
Rav: Thank God. Thank you. I remember. I came. Let’s go. Our. So.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I can see.
Rav: I’m through this. No, I’m through. So. I can see that. We got. Oh yeah. I got. I got. So.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and stuff like that. And I went home because I wanted to see my family.
Rav: I hadn’t seen them in a little bit.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then I was telling my mom, like, mom,
Rav: I think I’m at a field.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And my mom calls me dramatic.
Rav: Every time she’s like, you’re not going to fail. You’ve done this twice and you’ve passed.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So like, I don’t want to hear. And I was like, no, you don’t understand.
Rav: Like, I was not passing, walking into this final. It might like happen.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then when I got my grade back, she was like, what did I tell you?
Rav: Yeah. So, mom knows best. She does. But also like, you do have to sit with those next.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then I was like, oh, my God.
Rav: Like, I think our scores didn’t come out until like five, six days later. Which is torturous. It is torture.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I was just sitting there like.
Rav: Oh, my God. I don’t know if my work paid off, but it did. Yeah. So, yeah. Oh, that’s amazing. That’s really, really good.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What would you tell like your pre-med self now?
Rav: Well.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Would you say like, don’t worry about this, or keep going, or what would you say?
Rav: I would say calm down, drink some water. But like, so anxiety ridden.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And just ask for help.
Rav: There’s nothing wrong with pulling a side of student that you know is doing well, or a tutor or a professor and just being.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And like, I don’t know what’s going on. So I would, I would heavily recommend asking for help.
Rav: I’d recommend finding any kind of coping skills.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So therapy is really awesome.
Rav: You know, pre-med life, I remember what gets stressful. Medical school life, or if someone just has to go to grad school, that also gets stressful.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So it’s really, really important to find hobbies and. And any kind of activity that helps ground you.
Rav: Yeah. For like an hour or two a day. So. No, that’s great. Yeah. I really, I really harp on. I love that you said it too is that. Like, you know, be true to yourself. You got to go back to know what worked for you.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I think knowing your learning style is very important.
Rav: Absolutely. You know, some people. Writing down. Some people like highlighting a bunch. Some people need to hear it. Some people, you know, do like the flashcards. Some people need group studies. Some people need to be alone. Yeah. That’s. Yeah. It’s like that’s that’s hard. I didn’t figure that out until medical school.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What my style was because I just kind of just went through like pre-med stuff.
Rav: Yeah. Exactly.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Tell me what you’re thinking about going into.
Rav: I know you worked with kids. I don’t know if kids are still. No. doctors near me, any kind of doctor near me, not carrying anything back. And she worked for an orthopedic surgery practice. And I was never really interested in ortho, I never really heard about it. The only interaction I had was when my grandma broke her leg or she fractured a part of her leg in India. We never knew how it happened. She just landed in America with a fracture leg. But that was the brief intro I had to it for over I didn’t really know anything about it. And she set that experience up and I drove from Claremont.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And she was just an amazing surgeon and just like also seeing him in the clinic, seeing him
Rav: interact with patients and just seeing him be so calm.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I just felt like he was the kind of doctor that I would want to be. And just seeing ortho
Rav: also in general, I was very interested in it. But that’s not the only thing I have like all my list. I think EM is very interesting. When working as a B cat, kids with crisis and that would be a full blown. We have to be very calm. We have to deescalate them so they’re safe.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: When they’re in crisis, they’re not safe. I felt like I was very, very strong in those moments. And I really knew how to deescalate kiddos and stuff like that. So that I
Rav: felt like emergency medicine might fit well for me too. But and if I were to do ortho, sorry, I think I would do Peds Ortho. Because you know, you came to our school and you gave that fantastic talk. And I was just
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: so fascinated with all your pediatric cases that you were discussing. I thought that was so, so cool.
Rav: Yeah, no, that’s really good. Yeah, the cool thing about orthopedics is you can go into kind of a lot of different areas. It’s so specialized that you can go into a lot. So that’s really good.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What are you like most excited about for a second year? Oh, that’s good.
Rav: Question honestly, I feel like the one thing I’m really trying to learn this my first year is how do I balance school with taking care of myself? Yeah, because every like you were saying like the volume, the like the amount of information, it’s very easy for you to just put away any kind of personal errands you need to do and just sit at your desk and just read slides. That’s currently what I’m doing. It’s very, very hard. I’m slowly learning. Okay, I have to take my Sundays and I have to cook like my food. Otherwise, it’s not gonna happen throughout the week, right? Or I have to force myself and like do like I’m trying to learn crocheting. So that’s something. Yeah, so I’m trying to learn that.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it’s really fun because it’s challenging. But I feel like I’m learning a new skill and like learning a
Rav: different like fun activity that I can do. So like I’m trying to force. myself to almost take care of myself. But it’s hard. And so hopefully for second year, before I started I find that balance. But I’m also just really excited for mentorship. Because the first year of med school is so tough. And I feel like all of us med students that we have look up front were like, no, we’re fine. But like, I really hope that as a mentor, which I plan on signing up to be.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so I’m really excited to be a mentor. I can guide my mentees to kind of like, through their difficult moments and times and hopefully get them to a place where they feel comfortable and like medical school and their personal life
Rav: can bounce.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so I think that’s really cool. That’s really cool. That’s really great that you guys have that mentor program and
Rav: stuff. I think that helps because you’re like close to it, right? You’re not like, so removed from what. You just went through, you’re able to help folks out. Yeah, exactly. I think that’s amazing. Okay, so I think I know the answer to this. But just quick question, what matters. I would say persistence. Obviously, there’s nothing wrong with aiming for perfection. Like, there’s absolutely nothing wrong. But if that’s the only thing you’re aiming for, I think that’s where things can get very like, difficult. Like, if you don’t accomplish that, the defeat you might feel.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And that might hinder you in your next whatever project that you’re going to be tackling. And obviously in my journey, I hope people recognize it’s just pure
Rav: persistence. I wanted to be a doctor. Even though after the first bad M cut it, I still wanted to become a doctor and stuff like that. So I think persistence is so much more valuable. Just keep at it. No matter what is it? It’s yeah, medical school is not a sprint. It’s a marathon. It really just got a keep on going. And it’s different. Like, you know, we talked about the first year, the first year is just such a challenge. And I’m so glad you brought up self care, because I think that is so incredibly important to have that hobby or to do something new. I mean, I think my first or second year, I think at the prime of my first year, I learned how to tap dance. I took tap dance. Oh, okay. Yeah, I just was like, I just want to do it. Yeah. And it was like the best thing. I still have my tap dance shoes and whatnot. But I think that helped me together on a couple months. Yeah, pulled me together. But I think
Rav: that’s so important. Another thing that I wanted to ask is how should students handle comparison, right? You with other students, you know, I think that’s big. Like, you know, everybody, like you said, is kind of like, kind of have this to solve. Like, I’m doing okay. And there’s a lot of people that that compare themselves like this, I didn’t do as well as this person on this. Or, you know, how would you probably have? Absolutely. I mean, that’s something that I also struggled with. But at the end of the day, I think the one thing that I learned, especially like with your peers. Like who you surround yourself with. We all want to lift each other up. Right. So like, if you start, if you see that you’re starting to compare yourself to your friend who did better.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then you’re starting to compare to you. At the end of the day, like it’s you versus yourself on this journey. How can you make yourself improve the best and what is it that you need to specifically do to do better.
Rav: than you did last time. So what I really recommend is if you’re starting to like see that happening, just immediately compare yourself to your last exam. Did I do better? Did I do worse? And then what can I do to be even more better? Do I feel like my favorite thing to do right now is okay, if I didn’t do well, can I apply this in my clinical years? And if not, what can I do right now to make sure I can apply it in my clinical years? So just bring it back to yourself. So if you feel like there’s like a dual light situation, just find the light back on yourself and just be like, what can I do to improve myself? And I find that that really, really helps. And also, I know like I love my friends so much and I love
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: how you probably remember after every exam people would huddle and talk about the test and you would put C and all your other friends put D. And you’re like
Rav: sweating palms and you’re like, no, and not just that but all of a sudden we’re combining eight different questions into one because we can’t remember now. Honestly, I found it very, very helpful to leave that. And I think some people love that. They love to get their anxious energy out. But I found that that worse than that. So there’s, and I think my friends totally understand if I’m like, I’m going to go over there. And if you guys want to come in and let me feel free, but I’m not going to talk about this test. So good for you. Exactly. So just little things like that.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then you’re like, I’m going to take care of yourself. I just recommend doing. Yes. I love that. Yeah, I always got nervous of that. And I was like, Oh my God. And then you’re like going back and thinking about that question. And then you’re, you’re
Rav: bringing other questions together. Like, what did I do? And then just spiral down just anxiety roads. Exactly. Yeah. Like, that’s so good. That’s very, very good. Okay, we’re at our kind of wrap.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And fire questions. Right. So one habit that you think that changed everything for you. Oh, let’s see. I think there’s so many.
Rav: habits. I would say the first one is self talk. I’m going to say that one first. I think it’s very, very important because ironically, I felt like myself talk out of control this year. I was like.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: How dare you not know that? Like it was just so self critical, but making sure that you’re talking positively to yourself. So like, after the neuro exam, I was like, all right, like a stings, but you
Rav: know, you can do better. I know you can do better. So let’s do better. So it’s really, really important that if you’re starting to talk very negatively, or it’s starting to become a comparison game, where your friends did better. Why didn’t you do better? It’s important to nip that in the butt and be like, no, we’re not going to do that. You can do better. So let’s figure it out. I know you can do better. You did great on this quiz. You did great on the OPP practical and the semen practical. It’s important to nurture a very positive self talk and a constructive one as well. Yeah. So that I think that habit.
Rav: I’m studying going through lectures, doing practice questions now that I found a good practice question bank that really helps at school. And I feel like planning my week ahead was really, really all. Awesome. Yeah. That was a great tip. So my God, those are fantastic. All right, best study strategy that you have learned in undergrad, undergrad, in your master’s program or medical school, you can kind of pick either phase. I see undergrad drawing things out, absolutely concept mapping, not just rewriting your notes, but like attempting to make like almost like a figure you would see on a paper. How do you summarize this information so you can easily recall it. So undergrad really taught me that very well. And then my master’s program, when I came to my academic classes, Anki, I was an Anki queen. I still am. I love that app, but I do want to say you can fall into a trap with Anki where
Rav: you’re just memorizing facts, but you’re not learning how to apply them. So it’s really, really important, especially for medical school. I had to do this because I realized that was my weak spot is creating cards where you were forcing yourself to apply all these terms you’re using. Because like, exactly, so you might know what like cardiac output is. Sorry, that’s the first, that’s like, that’s the reason I’m hard that I remember. But how can you apply cardiac output in terms of these clinical vignettes you might see? What is it about cardiac output that’s so important that you need to understand not just its heart rate time stroke volume. So it’s really important that for anyone using Anki Quizlet, you create those almost second, third order cards that forces you to almost think through the material that way. So that’s the biggest tip that I can recommend. Oh, that’s fantastic. And I think it’s right. It’s super important as becoming a physician is that you’re not like when I
Rav: was again in undergrad, I was able to kind of regurgitate stuff, but this stuff you do have to retain and you have to go deeper. And I think what you just said, that’s going to be deeper, because you’re going to have to go into deeper layers because when you’re dealing with human beings, very complex and you’re going to have to ask them questions and get deeper, find the diagnosis different.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I think that just even that studying is going to help you so much in your clinical years just to be able to do what you want to do. So that’s really, really great. What do you think your hardest
Rav: like years so far or years would be? I would say 2025, even though COVID was terrible, like you would think I would say 2020. No, I think 2025 when I graduated, I got wait, listed to UCR and I was hoping I would get in because that would be such a nice quick little move. It’s like 40 minutes away from Claire.
Rav: I love California. I didn’t realize how much I loved it until I left. That was really difficult and learning to find my own community here. My own little roots here, what restaurants do I like to go to? It’s the little things that you don’t really think about that you have to figure out in medical school as well, and then also figuring out medical school in itself. Trying not to get knocked out or even when I did get knocked out because you do. There’s always a lecture or like a quiz or there’s always something to knock you down.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: How do I get back up not just quickly, but with my head clear so I don’t even think about being knocked down in the first place. So that was really, really tough for me to figure out anything I’m still
Rav: figuring it out. So I’d say 2025 was pretty tough. 2026 was tough because we started with Narrow, but hopefully it ends on a good day. Yes, you’re going to be fantastic. Yeah, I think in your training and people have to realize that you’re in, you know, I was in training and I did kind of a PhD research, so I took a little more time, but I was in training. I went to my MBA for 15 years, that’s including undergrad. That’s a long time and I moved. I was from California and went to Ohio and I went to Mississippi and I went to Pittsburgh and so you go all over. for this training and you have to be able to adjust.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And you still have to be able to adjust to the moves and be able to, and I don’t think people who are not
Rav: in medicine don’t realize.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: That right?
Rav: Yeah. Like we do our training everywhere, you know, that we can.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so I think that can be very stressful as well, just
Rav: even just dealing with the actual, you know, the… You know, doing medical school or doing residency. Yeah, exactly. That’s really great.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then one word to describe your journey so far. One word?
Rav: Honestly, it’s a roller coaster. It’s been a true roller coaster for a journey.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I wouldn’t be surprised if someone who was on a similar
Rav: journey, and many people were, just… I’m not doing med. It’s too much right now. I totally understand. This is crazy what I’m currently going through. But if you feel like you’re on that roller coaster and you still feel…
Rav: It’s a great journey. Well, it’s just a great experience. There’s some good memories. There’s a lot of growth there.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I guess I would do the one word out with you.
Rav: That’s absolutely wonderful. I had a lot of friends who… care and positive self-talk and I think that helps you keep you on the roller coaster. Absolutely. It’s not going to be roller coaster all the time. It’ll flatten out for you. There’s a light at the end of the tunnel but you… I think at this time there’s a little bit of turmoil in your life. Talk to me a little bit about your therapy. I think that that is…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: I think when you’re as a physician, you’re like, I don’t need therapy. I got this, right?
Rav: Yeah. I study this and then you know where I’m type A, tell me about how that really helped you.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Did you start an undergrad? Is that where you started before then?
Rav: I actually started after undergrad right before I went to grad school. Okay. Because I was also like, I don’t need therapy. But that was also around the time. I felt like in 2020, the talk about therapy changed where a lot of people do it and it’s very … rewarding and it’s another aspect of taking care of yourself. Not necessarily that you need to go because something’s wrong with you. There was a very different dialogue about therapy and I remember it was … shifting during COVID. And I remember being like, I have a lot of anxiety. And I felt like my parents, they’re like, what is anxiety? We don’t know what that is even.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Though they clearly have anxiety. I think we all do, right?
Rav: But let me try this out. My friends have tried it out. They loved it. I know some … family members tried it out and they also really liked it. So I wanted to try it out. And it was honestly the best decision I made. It was like, I feel like a lot of my mental fortitude. My… ability to just cope in general. It’s because of therapy. And it also helps you build resilience, which I’m sure you can agree in medical education and training. You need that. Because it’s really easy to get knocked off your wagon very easily. And you need the coping skills to remind yourself it’s okay. It’s supposed to be hard. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, this has been amazing. Thank you, Rob, so much for joining us. This is gonna be great for our students. So hope you guys … really enjoyed this episode. So thanks for listening.
