Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Hello and welcome to the Med Mentor podcast. I’m Dr. Tracy Lawyer and welcome to episode 4. We’re just rolling along here night.
Riley: I’m a medical student here who has a unique story and I can understand.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: I’m a medical student here at the Med Mentor podcast.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: It’s a lot, but I’m having so much fun. Good. And then are you guys probably nearing the end or the end-ish or kind of in the middle?
Riley: I think we’re smacking.
Riley: Yeah. And then maybe a good break. Absolutely. Well, good. So you have a really unique story prior to getting into medical school. So tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, sure.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I went to high school in Maryland, but I’m originally from like rural Arizona and then I went to Kentucky, Murray State.
Riley: From my undergrad, I played Division 1 soccer there. I graduated in three years with my bachelors in biology and a double minor in chemistry and ABA. I was a COVID freshman, so 2020 walked around the pitch. And so I had virtual classes, but I was able to play some soccer and see what I did.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I moved our season to the spring, so we just had a lot of conditioning, social distancing, and we always had to wear a mask. So I’m actually quite terrified about the…
Riley: I’m out of sweat that I think I inhaled during that time. I love it. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. And then after I graduated in 2023, I went back home to Maryland. I worked at the NIH for the next two years and kind of just built my application after that because I realized that being an athlete isn’t… Everything and isn’t going to get me everywhere I wanted to. Yeah. And so yeah, I had a great time working there, play a little bit of international and local soccer still, and… Got into ICON and figured what’s one more state on my little map of ones I’ve lived in. Perfect. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, I love this. Well, let’s go. Let’s go back.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So tell me about… And I played soccer as well in college, and it’s hard being a student athlete. And just… Tell me, A, what was your position? I played anywhere on the wing, particularly on the left wing, but I would like to say that I was just a left-back throw-in throw.
Riley: Okay. Nice. Well, good. So a lot of stamina. I was a striker, so I just stayed at the top. So well, that’s good.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so did you… Will soccer like your main sport like…
Riley: Going through high school, did you do any other sports or…? Yeah. I actually ran track quite a bit and was able to compete nationals in track.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then after my second…
Riley: I saw a third regardless, but that’s okay. When was soccer? And… Very happy with my choice. Awesome. Oh my goodness. I’m loving this girl. She did soccer. She did track. I both did. Her name is Riley, which is like my daughter. So man, this is amazing. The stars are like awesome. What event did you do in track? I was a 300 herpler. Ooh, even more stamina. Man, that’s crazy, but awesome. But tell me…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I heard some injuries in there too. So tell me about the injuries that you had as an athlete.
Riley: Yeah. So I kind of got my big ones out of the way before I got to college. I did two ACL… I was in the finals before I turned 18. And then in college, I fractured both of my hips.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then little necks and bumps there. A single…
Riley: A little concussion. And then when I was all I had in college and then I did my third messing around in a part. My students. You’ve been a lot in… In the medical field. Yes. And even before you started. And a lot in the therapeutics too. Absolutely. Oh my goodness.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so tell me about… Tell me about the injuries. I treat a lot of athletes that have these injuries and then a year later they either do the other side or they re-tape.
Riley: Or they’re AC on the same side. Tell me about just that journey and just kind of like… It’s a lot. Mentally I feel like it’s a lot to deal with. Like how… Yeah, absolutely. So I think the hardest part of this of injuries was kind of just… It wasn’t my fault. Like there’s a lot of things that you could say, oh I could have played the ball sooner. I could have gotten it off my foot. I could have just not subbed in that game. But that’s just an unhealthy what if game. Each one of my sales were completely different. My first one. It was 13 years old. Like that’s just unfortunate luck. My second one I took a bad tackle to the left side and everything in my knee just decided it wasn’t going to come with me. Was it on the same… It was not. So I did my right one and then I did my left one. Made it the entire way through college to set out to my ortho on that.
Riley: Awesome.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then I was in just my surrounding park with some friends in June of this year and took a weird step and felt…
Riley: I was like, I need an MRI. Oh goodness. Wow. That’s a lot. You are a trooper. And then tell me, I guess… There’s a lot of student athletes that come out of college and maybe they want to try to play professionally. They want to go to medical school. But it’s…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: They want to maybe try to do whatever sport they want to do professionally. What do you kind of say to that? Do you say go ahead and do it? Or what are your thoughts on that?
Riley: Yeah, I really think that is kind of like a conflicting topic because if you can play it, I would go play it. I miss playing every day. Even like, as soon as I was done with college, I was like, I’m never… I was playing again. Three weeks later, I was finding some reclee to join, playing some sort of game.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so I feel if you have the opportunity to…
Riley: You think you can play semis or you can go, bro. I would do it. But at the same time, I feel the weakest part of my application was because I played soccer because it lim… I was committed what I was able to do. And that I feel a lot of admissions committees don’t see athletics as being… I guess high-end as research or other extracurriculars. They see it as just another bullet and that you’ve missed opportunities because you did that instead. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Well, that’s a very interesting take on it. I never thought of that side of it. So tell me, I guess, what were your hours then? It’s always focused on soccer and whatnot. So did you have any hours other than to study or do anything else or was it just like soccer, soccer, all the way through?
Riley: Definitely, I felt like… I feel like it was soccer, soccer, all the way through. But I think it kind of changed my sophomore year when I kind of hit that wall that most young athletes hit where they’re like, okay, this actually isn’t forever. I need to have…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I have an after plan and it’s a really focused heavy on the student and student athlete. So usually we started with your 6am lifts and then I’d go to my classes, afternoon… And then there’s the mandatory study hall or mandatory film. So really my extracurriculars came in the afternoons or on our off day. So I did a lot of SAC advocacy and doing a lot of NIL deal pairings. And then I started a tutoring program for the athletics that pairs. And I was an athlete with one of a STEM tutor from our honor society that was there and that was really fun. That’s really cool. And so it sounds like I heard there was a stint of work… And I was talking at NIH, is that correct? Yeah, that’s where you got some of your… a lot of your research. Absolutely. Yeah. How did you get involved into that? So I was trying to figure out… What I could do to boost my med school application because at that point I knew I wanted to go to med school. I knew I wanted to get a doctor.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And kind of just Googled, what can I do to boost…
Riley: My medical school application and a post back came up and so I just put out a mass application through the NIH and got lucky and landed.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I was just able to figure out and we hang out with them for a week and just do a whole year’s work up and try and figure out what they got going on.
Riley: Oh wow, that is really cool. And so are you paired…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: with scientists, a research, a physician, like who are you paired with doing all this? So it’s a program within the Human Genome Studies.
Riley: It’s under Dr. William Gall. He ran the program, started the program and it’s just been incredible. It almost funing the entire thing. Oh, awesome. That is so cool.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Tell me about… and you did that for two years. I did. Yes. Okay. Nice. And then as you were doing that for two years, did you apply like to medical school? So I applied during it. So I had taken the MCAT once, didn’t give it the respect it deserved and needed to take it.
Riley: I can’t wait to post it. I love that. Yeah, because that thing can be at least. It absolutely is.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so you need to retake it, double down on the studying. And got a score that I was relatively happy with and then applied again, unfortunately for my wallet’s sake, but got in the second time. And as soon as… I got in, I was like, I’m going. Yeah. Good for you. And you said you’re from Maryland, is that correct? Yeah. Okay. And so did you apply everywhere where you made the East Coast? Yeah. And then I was like, what was the most recent year over here in Northwest? Yeah. And so was it just kind of just like throw up a net and see or were there specific things that you were looking for?
Riley: I mean, like I knew my… My score wasn’t competitive enough. My MCAT score and my application wasn’t competitive enough to pick school, to be picky with what I wanted to apply to.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so I definitely did like, big cast.
Riley: Big net casted out there. And so I was fine going anywhere. My family’s military, so we moved every, like, yes.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I was completely fine just having…
Riley: I mean, I was a little bit different than the other states that I hadn’t lived in yet. Nice. Well, that’s great.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Do you have any, like, I guess, family members that are close in this or is everybody that?
Riley: Most of my mom’s family is in California. Oh, that would be the closest. But yeah, other than that, everyone else’s East Coast. Nice.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then tell me about kind of the thought of going in medical school. Was this a, was this a, like, in college? Was this a, after college, was this a, maybe high school thought? Where did it come from? So I knew pretty early on that I wanted to do something in the medical field. I’m super, super close with my…
Riley: My dad and he’s a CRNA. So coming home hearing about his day and watching him go through his own little medical struggles was something that I was like,
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: okay, it’d be really cool to do that. But what do I want to do with it? And then obviously being an athlete, you’re just around, I feel the medical field more than, like, just the general population.
Riley: Yeah. And so having that and then finally… Just being a patient for so long at so many places that I was like, it’d be really cool to be the doctor that I want to see from this clinic or something like that.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so that really just…
Riley: Solidified not just the medical pathway, but that I wanted to be a physician.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Oh, that’s very cool. Any other family members other than your dad then?
Riley: No, it’s just… My dad, that’s the CRNA. Everyone else is… Everything I’m doing their own thing. Pretty much. Yeah. Good. Good.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So tell me… What surprised you most about your transition from going from collegiate athletics now into medical school?
Riley: Yeah, I definitely think it would have to be that people don’t… I think collegiate athletes are as impressive as we think we are. Yeah. Like, I think I’m the coolest person ever. Like, I play the sport. Yeah. It might be different if I play… I think I played at a big SEC school or was in the impactful player of the week. I wasn’t. But I think it’s just that I’m surrounded by people… People whose lives are just marginally more impressive than mine. Like, I’m surrounded by a Marine who survived K-stage for cancer. I’m surrounded by people who work with NASA who are…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And are going to make… do research that’s going to change the medical field. And I’m over here like, kick a pole really hard.
Riley: No, like, you can meet.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I think that was the biggest thing is just going from one little cohort to a larger cohort and that everyone’s pathway is different, but we’re all here at this…
Riley: The same institution with the same goal of becoming physicians. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That’s fantastic. Yeah. I just… the people that I’ve met in my medical journey…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then you go… and they’re like… and I feel like I did some impressive stuff…
Riley: But then you look people and you’re like, oh gosh, you really have been changing the world. Yeah, absolutely. I’m like, oh, I’m at it. Well, that’s what I did. But it’s very humbling, I think, to think. Because I think when you are a student athlete and you’re good at what you do, you’re kind of the star… I think you’re treated very well. But yeah, when you come into this pool of students from all over different ages… Maybe having families already and you’re kind of thrown into this mix…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then you start learning about everybody. I think it’s something special.
Riley: Oh, it absolutely is. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then you make these kind of long-term friends. And so, yeah. So I think that’s fantastic. Well, good deal. So you don’t play any soccer right now, then?
Riley: Or do you know? I watch… You can’t. You can’t. You’re a surgeon did not hear that. You didn’t hear that, Caroline. Perfect.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Awesome. So tell me what habits from athletics translated best to surviving your first-year med school?
Riley: It would have to be just the constant state of… Being busy. And just being so used to just, oh, here we go again, 13-hour day, not coming home.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so getting up for a when it’s dark, getting home when it’s dark, and just…
Riley: Having just no downtime and just living that for the last since 2020, essentially.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it just being the normal for me. So a long day is just a long day. And it’s… What I’m used to, I think, helped me not be burnt out or overwhelmed majority of the time.
Riley: Yeah. Yeah. Good deal. And tell me what you’re excited about, I guess, coming out in the first year. Going into second year, maybe having a break this summer. Yeah. So I’m really excited. My friends are going to take a trip to the French Alps to do an EM, a little certification. Something very excited for that. That’s amazing. Is that through the school or is that… The University of Utah’s medicine program is doing putting it on, but I’m also involved in some research. At ICON that I’m really excited for. So we’re doing genome sequencing. I’m very excited. I love the genetics. Perfect. I love that. Oh, good. But yeah, getting the little shirt. This is… I think that’s a big feat. I think coming into it, I think you come in and you’re just…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: You’re surviving, right?
Riley: You’re trying to get up to the top of the water and you’re surviving. And then as you go through medical school, it gets better, but each year brings a different challenge each time.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then at some point you won’t be just surviving, but then you’ll hit the next level and you’ll go to residency. And then you’re also surviving your injury. And then it keeps going. At some point you’ll be…
Riley: It’s super comfortable. But I think that getting through the first year is fantastic in medical school. I think getting through maybe the first fours is really, really kind of a big… Monumental event. So that’s awesome.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then how do training schedules prepare you for the intensity and volume of medicine? So just the constant state of being busy, not having downtime and just…
Riley: I feel like you know when you’re training for something, you’re like, oh, I’m building a… I feel like my study endurance, if that’s a thing, is a lot to do with being an athlete and having that background in just long days.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I’m just going to go read a book or something and wait until the off season to do that. And then really just appreciating that when I have that.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Nice. Are there any students you know that are also student athletes in medical school?
Riley: Yes. I think there’s a couple. I know of a baseball player, a basketball player. A few female soccer players, definitely not, obviously not the majority. Yeah. But there is a number of us, particularly at ICON. Yeah. And I know they’re still active in their respective… Yeah. I remember when I went to medical school, I started doing just like… I just wanted to like get out and do something age, just kind of relax and just knock it burned out. I got a co-ed soccer league indoor and it was with a couple of my friends in medical school, but it was like just like random people in Columbus, Ohio. I was in Ohio State for medical school and it was like the best time. Like it was so much fun. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I still talk to those people now and like it was just…
Riley: It’s awesome. So it’s good when you get in touch with those people that were athletes
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and just to kind of do some fun. Absolutely. That’s amazing.
Riley: Alright. So tell me how…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Do you handle setbacks now compared to when you’re competing? So obviously with all the injuries like setbacks are super common in athletics, and particularly with mine being the indoor and maggot net.
Riley: I think just the biggest difference one is that it’s on you. Like the setback is your fault. Like your study habit didn’t work. You didn’t put in the time for it. You were lacking. You weren’t enough versus like I said earlier that on the injury it wasn’t your fault. Like you can put that on yourself like rationally.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so… So just being able to be like okay, this was my fault. What did I do wrong? And just being able to either double down on the studying or being like okay, I need some help here. What can I do differently? And then just being able to bounce back from it. And then I think on the flip side of that with like the coming back from a setback,
Riley: it’s also really different in athletics.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And in athletics you have everyone on your side to get you there.
Riley: You can feel and see the progress you’re making and then know when you hit your base.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then you just get this really great euphoria when you pass that baseline and you’re like,
Riley: I haven’t hit this before. This is great. Like that didn’t slow me down. Versus with your setback.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And that’s going to hold you back. Like you will feel that through your GPA. And it’s kind of just on you to get…
Riley: yourself back up there. And it’s not as fun, I guess. Because you’re just like, oh, that’s my score. Like your progress is to find those numbers and not… something you feel. And you’re just like, it’s a little anti-climatic. I put all that work in for a couple numbers. But that’s okay. That’s okay. That’s okay. Look at there. Yeah, I do hear that I have heard that a lot. I think that’s a big stressor, but it also forces you to grow up a little bit.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And to say, hey, you know what? I need to learn how to learn better, learn more efficiently,
Riley: or study more efficiently, or to seek out help. I think that…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: when we go through medical school, you become a doctor. You’re like, I can do this, you know, whatnot.
Riley: But I always ask colleagues for help. I mean, that’s something that you need that support. Because you’re always growing. You’re always learning. But yeah, I hear that a lot. That it is on you.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it’s not a bad thing. It’s just, you know, at some point you’re going to have patience.
Riley: You know, you want to do the best for them. And so I think learning that in medical school that… Okay, well, it’s on me to learn this because… or for whatever reason. So, buddy. It’ll help you down the road. So, because when I think of when I’m in surgeries, I don’t have my attending, looking over my shoulder anymore. It’s just me and the patient and this patient trust me.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so, and that’s super important. So, I think that’s a good thing to hold on to. Like, it’s all about you.
Riley: But you do have the support. Yeah. To be amazing. Do amazing. My school school. So, and it sounds like your guys medical school has a lot of good resources. Absolutely. Yeah. I come as incredible with that. Do you have, is there like a, I don’t know, like just a second. Yeah. So, you can pick an advisor or something that you guys are assigned to or just go to anybody or… So, a little bit of bull. Well, actually it is bull. You can pick an like… You are assigned an advisor, but if you’re vibing with one staff member particularly well, you can switch. We have learning specialists there that are super accommodating for us. I’m having a crisis. Please help me learn how to study.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then we also have behavioral specialists for like the mental side of it when you’re just down in the dumps and you can’t figure out how to pull yourself out of that.
Riley: Wow. That’s great. My friends who absolutely love their behavioral therapists, I went to learning specialists and they were both great. They were super helpful and hope I get out of my little slump of… Academic downs. Yes. And it’s going to happen. The slumps are… I mean, I remember my slumps are what I call dark days. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately it’s going to happen and it’s just nice. It’s nice to kind of lean on either your friends or your advisors or mentors or whoever.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: That’s really good resource for you. And I think we hit on this a little bit, but what’s your typical study daily? So I know this sounds fake and I promise I’m not making up. I’m not getting any like props from this,
Riley: but I will get up at 3.11 in the morning. I meet a… …friend at the gym. And so we do our little workout and then we get to school by 5.30, study until about 8 when classes start. Classes are for… 8 to noon. And then I will have lunch with friends and then just study until our little afternoon session.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then after that I will stay on campus until about 7, 7… …30 and then heading home for dinner and going to sleep. Yeah. And so is that everyday getting up at 3?
Riley: Pretty much. Wednesdays are my sleep in days sometimes. I’ll pick one.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So we usually just be like, all right, I’ll get to school at 5.30, but I’m gonna get up at like 5. That’s awesome. Oh my goodness. And so did… How did this work out?
Riley: Like did you core someone to get up at 3? I don’t know. I get up early in the morning. I get up at 4.30, so I can’t really stay much. But I don’t know if mine’s to study. Mine’s just up. Yeah. Is there somebody who did this person that you guys just kind of say, hey, let’s do it. Yeah. So I like got cleared for my therapist and I can go to a gym because like we’re gonna let me you. Because you know, you’re at 3.30.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And you’re a fourth meg becoming. And so I was like, okay, I’ll behave.
Riley: But I was talking about getting a gym membership and my friend was saying, I was like, yeah, I’ll… I’ll come with you. And I was like, are you sure? Like, I want to go in the morning because… Sure. Are you sure? And she’s just been incredible at coming with me. It’s just so funny because as soon as her turns 9 o’clock… You don’t hear we fall off the face of the earth. It goes out. We’re just so tired.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And she’s been great, helps me keep on track with it. And it always is just like…
Riley: We’re going and I’m like, all right, I’m coming. That’s so awesome. I love that. Yeah. And then you get it done. You’re done for the day. So then you crash at night if needed to be. Absolutely. How…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: How do you balance efficiency versus endurance when you have to study long hours?
Riley: I feel like just regardless of how efficient you are, it’s going to be long hours studying. I think for me, like trying to prioritize efficiency is really hard, but I’ll start to notice when I’m starting just to not be as effective in my study habits. Like, if I’m taking like a little practice test and I’m not reading all the… The rationals, the answers, I’m like, oh, I know that word. And then clicking it and just not reading if it’s wrong or right. Or if I’m scrolling through slides and I’m like, that’s not an important topic. We’re just going to… I’m just going to keep going. Absolutely is important. I’m just in my head. I want to be done.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I usually just take a break. I’ll go… go to a YAP lab. I’ll go walk around the school and talk.
Riley: Or just getting out of the school or getting away from that for a little bit and then just coming back to it and just having that little refresh and reset and getting back into it.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so during your pre-med were you… did you ever imagine like you would study this much?
Riley: Absolutely not. No. Never in my life. I never thought that I would spend over 12 hours in a single building a day and spend weekends there. I studied an undergrad. But not over a lot. I mean, you did some… I mean, what you did, Ken as well in biology. So you took some heavy hitters. I did. I also… I feel like I came in. I just took a lot of gen eds and I felt really prepared for college coming in. And I think I was ready for college. I was never… I don’t think you could ever just be ready for med school. I agree. I think that’s also where it came in. And there’s just so much more information being piled onto your plate every single day with med school.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so it’s just trying to shovel it all.
Riley: Oh my gosh. Yeah. It’s so much information. And you know what’s shocking is that you’re going to remember this. And your brain is so amazing that you’re… I mean, there’s some things where I’ll look at some of your guys first-year stuff and be like, oh my goodness, I remember that pathway. I didn’t know. It was buried deep in… Oh gosh, that’s fantastic.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What’s one study strategy you wish you discovered earlier in med school?
Riley: I really want to say… One my entire city habit, but the use of AI. I feel like that’s been super helpful for me and I know it’s kind of controversial. But I definitely didn’t use it for the first round.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I did extremely poor on them. And so I think doing that and then once I realized that that’s super helpful, I was able to build what I needed around. So I usually will do first passes in lecture, second pass is just passively rewriting everything. And then third pass will be all the school has whiteboards and I love it. So I’ll set it a whiteboard and rewrite a summary that AI generated for me on there.
Riley: Oh, that’s cool.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then I’ll use AI to generate quiz questions based on…
Riley: I’m just learning. I feel like I’m a little foggy.
Riley: Yeah, I just can’t believe how much you can do with it, but I never even thought of that with studying. Yeah, it’s absolutely incredible. One of the professors provided a prompt for it, so it tailors it to not only the session objectives, but so it highlights USMLE, high content and stuff like that. It’s so incredible. I love it. Oh my goodness. I didn’t…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Wow. And so do you do stuff like what is it like? Inky or in the flash?
Riley: Onky. Onky. I wish I was an onky person. They look so much. They look like they have so much fun with their little color clickers. Oh, and we didn’t have that when it obviously couldn’t put out so wrong.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: When I was going back in my day, oh my gosh, that’s so cool.
Riley: Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Are you a study or in a group or do you like to do it kind of like your own thing?
Riley: I think I like to do it with my group, but I don’t like silence.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So usually I… it’s usually like me and two or three other friends just kind of just sitting there doing our own things and every now and then we’ll be like, oh, I have thoughts.
Riley: I’m just gonna do a little diverge of something came up and then just walk right back into it.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So it’s super helpful.
Riley: Oh my goodness. That is… I’m so cool about the questions because I’m a big like I know when I was in my school, we had to look back at like the old exams to get I know. I was like on the computer and you’re like scrolling. It’s like a Xerox copy of it. I mean, it was awful. But I never thought about AI doing questions for you. That’s for me as brilliant. It’s their wonderful. Oh my goodness.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: See?
Riley: That’s… I think you guys are gonna be so awesome. That’s so cool.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So tell me how did it feel to step away from being an athlete and step into this new identity.
Riley: So… Like a sad thing. Oh, like I’m over it and let’s move on with my life. No, this was absolutely tragic. It’s. Yeah. You don’t know what to do.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I still get like massive FOMO watching like college soccer or like watching people play soccer. And I’m like, you know, I did that.
Riley: I’m gonna… You’re not singing that. I’m singing that. I’m…
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And yeah, like every now and then I’ll like look at pictures from that and or like look at myself and I’m like, I feel like I just swapped places.
Riley: Was like what I’m seeing. Yeah. Because I spent so long building that persona of the soccer player of that was my life that I forgot that there’s more to it than soccer. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so having to have that realization in my sophomore year and being like, okay, you need to actually do college was a little difficult. And then again, just dedicating everything you have like, I’m probably having me paying for forever.
Riley: I have a pain.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And for a sport that I don’t…
Riley: It’s been much time on now and that’s just not my life is… It’s interesting. It feels weird. It feels like I’m forgetting something. I’ve woken up sometimes. I’m late for weights.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it’s like, no, really, you haven’t played college soccer and forever.
Riley: That’s not you anymore. No, you silly person. Oh man. That’s crazy. Yeah. I think when I… I think I’m not going to stop running professionally. I was kind of glad I did it. My heart wasn’t really into doing the running. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I had a couple injuries, kind of nagging injuries.
Riley: Yeah. But it got to a point where I was like, gosh, I’m really… A lot of this I was doing for other people. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it was like, gosh, I’ve always wanted to do medical school. And it finally got to a point.
Riley: I’m done and I made that decision. But then kind of when you go through afterwards and you see these people that are very successful
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and what you did or what not, and it makes you feel so…
Riley: Yeah, it does. It’s a little depressed and a little sad.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I think that a lot of student athletes go through that, right?
Riley: They’re not… I think that one of these commercials it says that… Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I think that one of the most important things is that they’re not going to do a professional. And most of them are getting ready their jobs, going to graduate school, going what not. And it’s…
Riley: It’s a little sad, but yeah, I remember when I was like, okay, I’m done. I got any decision. I can’t prolong this. Yeah, and I put new first. Yeah, so… But I totally get it when you look in the mirror.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And you’re like, dang it, and I used to be on the mat. What happened to you?
Riley: I love watching Zawhrs. Yeah. Like women’s Zawhrs, so amazing. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I try to get my daughter Riley.
Riley: Mm hmm. I try to force her in the soccer. She’s 13 now. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And she hated it. And she’s an awesome basketball player. And I didn’t do much basketball at all.
Riley: I’m just saying, so I’m really into basketball now. But yeah, I literally was like, you’re gonna be soccer. There’s all these pictures of her younger with soccer ball. Just an unhappy face. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And she’s like, I’m not having it.
Riley: Yeah. But she loves her basketball and I’m like, that’s great. Yeah. Oh my goodness, so funny. All right, so we kind of touched on this.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: How do you maintain physical fitness and mental health?
Riley: Mm hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So definitely obviously physical is just the jam I need to go there or I will go stir crazy. And then I feel for the mental health.
Riley: Great for my mental health. Awesome.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And did you, when you came into medical school, was it like a group that you kind of, like, kind of gravitated toward?
Riley: Yeah. Yeah. It’s rare that you even know someone coming in because you guys come from all over the place. But especially being from the East. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: You know, I think how did that work for you? So I sat next to my friend.
Riley: Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so when I first mentioned that the other group, and so it’s a great time.
Riley: Yeah. Just having everyone together. Good. Good. Good.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And how many are in your class like wrestling? So we are the largest class.
Riley: Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So let’s go into what role does discipline versus motivation play for you now.
Riley: I definitely feel that discipline is what takes over when I lack motivation.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so motivation is kind of the like why I want to do it, but then the
Riley: disciplines is how I’m going to get there. So like I want to be a doctor because I’m scared. Like what else am I going to do like I’m scared or failing out. So I’m going to stick to my study schedule. But that study schedule hasn’t been built without the discipline. And so again I feel as a student athlete that’s something that was really built into you like oh like core values discipline discipline discipline and so just being able to stick to something and commit to something that you want to do. And even when days are hard is just where that discipline takes over, where your motivation isn’t there. Yeah I do think that’s probably a little bit easier for students especially in college. That you get into this habit of doing kind of your daily stuff and doing practice and whatnot and you guys games coming up or whatever. But this I think we’re kind of mentally trained to handle a lot whether it’s kind of the we got a
Riley: reset or we have to do whatever I think that that is an advantage of. Being a student athlete. Just kind of picking yourself up or you know getting with your friends and getting that motivation. So I think that’s super helpful. I would agree. Oh did being an athlete influence why chose medicine? Yeah so I think again my dad was a big part of it. But I think also being in clinics myself and then always something’s always hurt regardless of what you’re doing. Something’s always bugging you. You’re always gonna be in the training room and so I feel that’s also. Kind of a large reason why a lot of student athletes will pursue medicine. Like either PT, OT, nurse, physician. I think there’s a lot of us in those fields because. We’re just around it all the time is what we’re used to and it kind of keeps you close to what you like because like obviously you as an ortho will see a lot of
Riley: like. Athletes or like stuff like that and so just being still involved in that world without being part of it. I think it’s a large part of why a lot of us stick with it. Yes absolutely.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so do you have an idea of what you want to go into then for your specialty or at least
Riley: high for residencies? I would love to do orthopedics. We’re gonna. See what grades turn out to be and just how competitive everything is and we’ll go from there. But at the end of the four years I’m gonna be a doctor regardless. I think that’s a good way to put it and you know even if you’re like I’m want to do ortho I think you’re my open son. Something might just surprise the heck out of you. Yes and you might turn the other way. I had a friend in medical school who he was like the typical ortho. I’m typical ortho bro and then just a nice guy.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And like you just you kind of knew that he was gonna go into.
Riley: He was probably guys in your school that you’re like in gals that are just like yeah they’re going into ortho.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so first and second year you know it was all ortho ortho ortho and then we.
Riley: Got to her third year where we do kind of the general rotations and so it was like P. E. G. Y. N. sort of area that kind of thing. He did his OB G. Y.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And rotation and completely flip.
Riley: You want to go ortho to G. Y. N. Whoa. I’m telling you that’s a switch. Like just our mouth open and he absolutely loved it and he’s doing fantastic in practice. But it was so just like it was like so like oh yeah he’s ortho. Yeah he’s ortho.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And he completely flipped and we were just all like oh my gosh.
Riley: But so yes it was crazy. That is wild. Yeah. That’s the only wild right. You would think like oh you like emergency medicine. You know did whatever and you know G. Y. N. which is again fantastic specialty in profession
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and whatnot but it was just it was crazy. He fell in love with that routine. And yeah he’s doing amazing in practice. It was wonderful.
Riley: Yeah. So I always hope just keep you know even if you got something just keep your mind open. You know don’t don’t. Like I don’t want to ever do that. You’ll eventually hit something or try something and you never know you might love it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What advice would you give to pre-
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and to a current athlete worried about balancing.
Riley: As weird as the sounds after I’ve complained for the last little bit. It’s not as hard as you think it’s going to be. Don’t get me wrong. It is. This is the hardest thing I’ve ever done and probably ever will do. Yeah. But it’s not as hard as you think it is. It’s a hundred percent doable and the experience is what you make it. If you. I’m just going to focus on this then that’s all you have. Mm hmm. And kind of just making sure you branch out a little bit and have just a little bit of normal. If you can have that in med school. Yeah. Just keeping that up and it is what you make it. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. I love that normal life right. Like it’s like we’re like. Oh, I just got to study 24 seven. Go and do something to a hobby like. Yeah. If you’ve been an artist go do some classes or go out and just have fun. You know, go to dinner and go find some places to eat.
Riley: Yeah. It’s yeah. You need that normal life because you need that. You got to understand the work life. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I know it’s hard when you’re just in medical school. Yeah.
Riley: It’s you know, you don’t want to get behind and you don’t. Mm hmm. Because if you do get behind then it’s like there’s. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then you know, it’s coming and then the anxiety builds up and everything. But yeah, I agree. And then I heard you guys have some are they golden weekend?
Riley: Yes. Oh, I love a golden. I love the excited. I’ve had a great golden. We get every single one. But yeah, it’s pretty much they release all the med students out for a weekend.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so we go out. We wreak havoc and downtown whizzing.
Riley: Perfect. We go bowling. We play games. We have movie nights. It’s. It’s a great time. It’s like, Oh my goodness. There is life outside of this actually.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Yes. I think that’s super important. How many times have you guys do that? So we have a golden weekend.
Riley: After every block course. So last semester, we had three. Oh, I guess walks. We had three. So we had one. I think it was in September.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And then our next one was Halloween and then the last one before winter break. And so we have I think two more weeks in this block. And then we.
Riley: We have a golden weekend and then we have spring break and then we’ll have another one and then we’ll. Let’s get going. Yeah, that’s great. And it’s everybody’s. Is it just the first years or is it.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So they try and stagger. I think I think they try and stagger the first and the second years. So our goal and we can usually don’t line up on each other’s but there’s usually some over.
Riley: Nice. Well, hey, pick a medical school where has a golden weekend. That’s. Yes, absolutely. That sounds so good.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So this is an interesting question. I think that.
Riley: People are always concerned about like obviously getting into school and they’re concerned about.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Hey, what are the admissions committee? Like what do they want? What do you think that these admission committee committees often misunderstand about student athletes?
Riley: Yeah, I think kind of just the hardest part is trying to explain. This is what you’re good at and this is a skill that you’re really proud of and trying to explain to someone that I’m really proud that I can ping this ball 40 yards or hit upper 90 from.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And they’re not them not seeing it as impressive but the time you spent to craft that and everything is really impressive to you and to.
Riley: The athletic community but to them, like I never got asked about my soccer career in my interviews. I was asked about NIH. I was asked about some of the other stuff.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So that’s all they wanted to know about. So I think just kind of getting the admissions committee to understand that this is something that took time that this took a lot more time than most people. And like how much time is spent not just because NCAA obviously regulates the hours but you’re not actually doing those hours.
Riley: You’re not actually in the training room or running or whatever you need to get back there.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so just trying to be like okay I have all of these skills that I got from soccer.
Riley: But these just aren’t tangible things that I can bullet point and explain in words it would have to be through interactions or through some sort of work effort. Yeah, that’s really good.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: As a side and I imagine did you guys do an essay going into medical school? Yeah, like a personal statement?
Riley: Yeah, yes it was. Was yours something completely different or was.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So the first time I applied it was solely being an athlete. And then I kind of realized I was like okay because I had an interview.
Riley: Okay, well I was a hospice aide. I love that. Let me tell the story from that. Let me tell the story about from NIH when the kids come in. I was like I love that.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it was so much fun. And so I was able to use the. And then kind of just working in some like past experiences from like my dad and from myself just being in clinics and being like okay this is what I want to see in a position and this is what I’m doing. And so I think that’s just where it all comes from.
Riley: Yeah, no, and I think it’s a good point too is like I think as a student. As an athlete, you feel like you’re one dimensional. Oh, how much fun.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And that’s all you have. And when I tell people was like admission committees, they’re looking for the well rounded person. So that’s why you want to do if you can’t do volunteering stuff, volunteer your time somewhere, shadow somebody, even if you’re like I don’t know if I can’t get in this program.
Riley: I think just reaching out to folks to be able to get some other experience, you know, just so it doesn’t look like you’re one dimensional. I think it’s super helpful. Yeah, that’s definitely what they’re looking for research volunteer and just something that sets you apart that makes you super different. Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And it doesn’t have to be you don’t have to do something where like, yeah, I’m going to be an astronaut and I’m going to move or something else.
Riley: I think that it’s just, you know, you’re even you’ll see. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so, you’re just going to see it in residency too, is that people just want to have normal doctors and their own.
Riley: Yeah, absolutely. Like your patients want you to have a life and, and you know, but you don’t. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And so, you know, you’re just going to be able to do obviously the things that you’ve been training and working and very passionate about.
Riley: But like I spend a lot of my time in clinic talking about like my kids and you know what they’re doing and stuff.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And they think patients don’t care about my grades and medical school.
Riley: Yeah. Like, oh, you’re not going to get. Yeah, it’s just doctors. So, but I think that’s super important is just to be well rounded.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So if you are soon.
Riley: Just do something else to make it all complete for you.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What would you tell your pre meds.
Riley: self now. That soccer isn’t everything. And again, like the MCAT a little more seriously, it’s a lot harder than you think it is in seven hours. It’s a very long time. I definitely did not give it the credit it was due and needed to double down on that. Yeah, did you do one of the like the
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Princeton reviews or Kaplan? Do you not do that the first time? Maybe did that second time? How did that go? So I did Kaplan both times. The first time I got there maybe like 3% of Kaplan.
Riley: It was like, okay, didn’t try on that. But then the second time did Kaplan and you rolled and markedly increased my score. Oh good. So perfect.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So that’s for my work. Yes.
Riley: Sometimes work. So I know that they’re expensive, but that’s really good to know.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: If you could give one pre-med per all that helps you to get into medical school, what would it be?
Riley: Do something you’re passionate about. Because if you can talk really excitedly and show that it’s something that you loved and that you felt like this was something that made a difference, they’re going to feed off your energy and it’s going to make for a great conversation. Because half the interview, once you get the interview, it’s a personality hire. They know your stats, they know your GPA, they know your MCAT score, but they don’t know who. You are. And so when you start talking to them, it’s personality-based. And you want something that you can show. You’re like, I’m actually human. I have fun. I can be a person to my patient. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. No, that’s really good. I always tell folks on, you know, because everybody’s about like, um. I’m going to buff up my resume with a bunch of research and I’m like, that’s great. But if they ask you about a research, you better know what’s going on. Yeah, for sure.
Riley: It’s happening. And even with that, I mean, I tell you the research, you can bust stuff up, but like do something that you want to do. Right. Just don’t do research to get your name. Paper or whatnot. Do something that’s like, man, you know, I just did this paper because I just really felt this really cool. Or I had a friend who had this diagnosis. Yeah. So, yes, I think it’s such a good point is once you get the interview, you kind of have your foot in the door and it’s kind of being normal to be yourself. They’re not looking for cookie cutter people. They’re looking for different individuals, different backgrounds, passion, love and life, you know, kind of like really excited about the future. So. That’s really, really good to know. So this is our rapid fire pearls. So most underrated skill for medical school success. I think just being a people person, like being able just to make friends right off the bat or just
Riley: being able to find that connection really quick is going to save you and so many aspects. Yes. So don’t be a hermit or anything. Yeah. Go out there and make some friends. You’ll get surprised that everybody is thinking the same. Yes. Everybody’s nervous. Everybody’s anxious, especially in the first year. Great. Even in like, when you go second year, right? Everybody’s nervous about boards. Yeah. You’re nervous about third year. They’re nervous about wards and then you go fourth year. You’re worried about residency. I mean, yeah, you’re all together. It’s. All the time. Yeah. Biggest myth about being a student athlete, pre-med. That athletics is going to carry you forever. I know Meristate had a couple.
Riley: Yep. Yep. That’s really, really good. Best productivity tool or habit. I really just think it’s that early mornings, I think, because I. Once it’s 5.30 in my mind, I’m like, oh my goodness, I have so much day to go through versus if I’m waking up at eight or nine, I’m like, oh my god, I’m running out of hours. That’s a true morning person. I will say I’m a true morning person, but like my husband’s a true night person. That’s just where we live. Yeah.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So you don’t always have to be a morning person to be medical school.
Riley: Yeah. I think it’s just if you’re just in like a night person night out, you like to cram, do your thing. I could barely sleep. I’d be asleep at like nine. Yes. Like my head on the book drew a wave or something like that. So that’s really good. One thing you never skip, no matter how busy you are. I always make sure to. Leave school in time to call my parents. Oh, I love that. Then being on the East Coast, a little bit of a time zone difference.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So just make sure I’m calling them on the way home. Oh, I love that. Yeah. That’s so good.
Riley: Three words to describe your medical journey so far. Probably the biggest thing is humbling, challenging, and it’s just a blast. Like I’m having a great. Yes. Well, that’s good. I’m glad to hear that. Even with you saying that maybe the first part wasn’t great with grades and stuff, I think it’s good. You just have to keep that positive added. I think you have to think like, okay, I’m learning, I’m learning, I’m growing,
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: and just keep that positive added in. You’ll be fine.
Riley: In a blink of eye, you’re not a medical student forever.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And in a blink of eye, you’re going to be applying for residency.
Riley: In a blink of eye, you’re going to be in red. You’re going to be in practice. So it’s going to come fast. That’s really good.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: All right. So kind of enclosing what does success look like?
Riley: Medical school. I think just not having a fourth ACL surgery would be great.
Riley: It’s nothing like a true. I would love to end up like ortho, but again, just becoming a doctor is going to be so great. And enough. Somewhere where the world would be even better. Just doing something that I’ve talked about doing since I was young, it would be the best thing ever. Yeah. Yeah. I think.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And I really enjoyed my graduation from residency was great, fellowship was great, and fellowship was only one year. Medical school just hit different, right?
Riley: Because then yeah, that’s when you’re like a doctor, right? And I was like, like super emotional about it. My father had passed away when I was in my twenties, but I was. Very just kind of emotional about it because it was something that that was like, I did this. This is what I wanted to do. No one told me. Go to medical school. I didn’t have I was a first doctor in my family. And so that moment, you know, just treasure that moment. I’m forgetting. You know, getting the bigger white coat, you know, all that. So the longer white. Yeah. So but I just, I really, I really enjoyed that that time.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: That was awesome. So and then what message do you want pre meds listening today to walk away with?
Riley: Essentially just do you like I said this earlier, like. What’s your passion about it’ll come if you want to get into medical school, you will get into medical school. I was told the same thing by my college recruiter, like if you want to play soccer somewhere, there’s a school for you. If you want to practice medicine. There’s a school for you. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. I think you just keep trying and, you know, there’s going to be failures and they’re not really failures. It’s a little step down, but they’re learning.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: So I think, yes, do you. I love that. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for being here. This is amazing. So I really appreciate you. And I will continue to follow your journey and your career. Thank you so much. Absolutely.
