Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Hey, everyone. This is Dr. Tracye Lawyer. Welcome to the Med Mentor podcast, and this is the first episode. I’m super excited about this. This podcast is really for current medical students and pre-medical students. I thought it would be really cool to interview medical students and talk about where they’re at, how they got there, what they were doing before medical school, how they prepared, how they’re feeling about medical school, how they’re feeling about the future specialty they want to go into, what their concerns are, what their triumphs are, and what they’re dealing with right now.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: A lot has changed since I was in medical school. Residency has changed. There are different hours now, more restrictions, and some of the board exams are now pass/fail. For us, they were graded scores. So I felt like it would be best to have people who are currently in medical school talk to you guys directly. I laid out some questions, but this is going to be pretty chill and low-key. My first student is Cameron. Hi Cameron, thanks for coming on.
Cameron: Of course. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: We’re going to keep things pretty generic so no one can really identify Cameron, but I have quite a few questions for him. I want him to be free to talk about whatever comes to mind, what current medical students or pre-med students might need to hear, some of the things he feels like he did right, and some of the things he would never do again to make life a little easier. So I’m going to start with a simple question. What year are you in right now?
Cameron: I’m a second-year medical student.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Tell the audience what goes on in the second year of medical school.
Cameron: Your second year of medical school is pretty much a continuation of that first year. Those are your pre-clinical years, where you’re mostly doing textbook-based learning and getting up to date on all the information you need before your clinical years. Year two is really all about getting ready for your first board exam. As a D.O. student, I’m taking Level 1, and we can also take Step 1. Those are the two big exams at the end of second year that we’re getting ready for currently.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Does the first and second year curriculum basically prepare you for that board exam, or do you have to do something additional to get ready for it?
Cameron: It’s pretty much all incorporated. We do systems courses that last anywhere from about six to eight weeks per system, and we go over all the details involved in each body system. By the end of your second year, you start to develop a good sense of all the systems, how they work together, and how to apply that to exam questions.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: How are you feeling about it right now?
Cameron: Overwhelmed. On top of just doing coursework for school, I’m also doing practice questions to supplement my learning, and that can definitely be a lot. Then you’re also trying to keep up with extracurriculars like research and relationships, so things can get overwhelming.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Tell me about one of the big decisions students face when they’re looking at medical schools, especially D.O. versus M.D.
Cameron: When you’re first starting to look at medical schools as a pre-med student, there are really three big categories people look at: Caribbean schools, D.O. schools, and M.D. schools. I chose a D.O. school, which is a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine program. It’s pretty much the same training as an M.D. student, but we also get ancillary training when it comes to certain musculoskeletal disorders. We focus a lot on musculoskeletal pain, like back pain and joint aches, so I would describe D.O. as an M.D.-focused curriculum with additional osteopathic training.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And when you decided to go the D.O. route, did you stay in the same state you were from?
Cameron: I’m originally from California, so I was definitely looking at schools there, but I was also looking across the country. One school that caught my eye was in Meridian, Idaho, right next to Boise. I chose it partly because it was close to the mountains. I love camping and being outside, even though once I started medical school I didn’t get to do those things as much. I also liked the opportunity to sharpen my musculoskeletal examination skills and really hone in on what I wanted to do later on.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Do you have doctors in your family, or is this new for everybody?
Cameron: I’m the first person in my family pursuing medicine. I think my grandmother was a nurse, but I’d be the first doctor in my family.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What made you choose this path? Was this something you always knew, or did it come later?
Cameron: I was definitely a late bloomer. I didn’t know what I wanted to do until my sophomore or junior year in college. I originally went to college for kinesiology because I wanted to be a physical therapist. I competed in track and cross-country, and I always had little injuries. One of those little injuries ended up being a big one when I tore my Achilles. That introduced me to the world of orthopedics and medicine in general, and once that happened, I knew I wanted to go into medicine.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Tell me about kinesiology. A lot of students can branch from that into things like physical therapy or becoming a physician assistant. Were those ever part of your thought process?
Cameron: Definitely. At first I wanted to be a physical therapist, but once I got introduced to orthopedics and medicine, I realized I wanted to take more of a whole-patient approach to care, and that pulled me toward medicine. I also thought about becoming a physician assistant because a lot of people look at that from a lifestyle perspective: fewer hours, less school, more freedom in your twenties. But for me, I was looking long term, and I wanted to really be in charge of the patient and lead their care. That’s ultimately why I chose medical school.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: For students in college who already know they want to go to medical school, tell me about your major and how you handled the prerequisites.
Cameron: I was a kinesiology major, which some people also know as exercise science. It covered a good amount of the prerequisites for medical school, but I still had about two classes that didn’t meet the requirements, so I had to take some courses outside my major. Ultimately I finished all the prerequisites. I’ve heard of people majoring in history or art and still going into medicine, so I don’t think there’s one correct major. Biology is probably the most common one, but I know people in my class who were art history majors and are doing very well. As long as you have a passion for medicine, you’ll figure out a way to make it work. I also did a post-baccalaureate program to finish some of those final courses I was missing.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Did you take a break between undergrad and medical school?
Cameron: I did. I took a three-year break between undergrad and medical school. Part of that was to finish my post-bacc requirements, and part of it was to gain more research and clinical experience. During that time I worked as an EMT, research assistant, medical scribe, and medical assistant. I tried to hit all those pillars of medicine before starting school, and I felt like that really helped prepare me for medical school.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What advice would you give somebody in high school who thinks they want to be a doctor?
Cameron: Keep your options open. You’re still super young, and it’s great to be passionate, but I would definitely say to shadow if you can and try to get clinic experience so you can see whether this is really for you. If it sticks, great. If it doesn’t, that’s also okay. You still have a lot of life to live and a lot of experiences to have. So my biggest advice would be: don’t get too overwhelmed, try to have fun, get some good experience, and don’t be too hard on yourself.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: As a second-year, what does a typical weekday or week look like for you?
Cameron: At my school we have hybrid classes, so we can either be in person or remote. Most days, though, we do have to be on campus for clinical experiences and physical exam skills. A typical day is classes from about 8 to 12 for didactic coursework. In the afternoon, starting around 1 p.m., we might have a mannequin-based simulation. My school really emphasizes simulation, and those can be anything from sepsis to meningitis to heart attacks. That usually finishes around 4 or 5 p.m. After that it’s dinner, maybe exercise, and then trying to catch up. A lot of those days spill into the weekend because you still have to study. I pretty much view it like a job from 8 to 5, and then I study at home afterward.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Do you think it’s feasible to work while you’re in medical school?
Cameron: Full-time work is 100% out of the picture. I don’t know anyone who is successfully working full time and also doing medical school full time. I personally work as a tutor on campus, and that’s only about four hours a week. Something along those lines is doable, but anything more than probably ten hours a week is not really feasible.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Tell me about the specialty you want to go into, some of the specialties you’ve thought about, and maybe what has pulled you in those directions.
Cameron: I’m sure your listeners know that you’re an orthopedic surgeon, and I actually reached out to Dr. Lawyer because I am interested in orthopedic surgery. My sports background and my Achilles tendon tear got me introduced to orthopedics early on, and that really shaped where I want to go. That said, I’m still in my second year, so I still have time to explore. I’m also interested in anesthesia, emergency medicine, and dermatology, and I’m sure some of that will change once I get into third year. But right now, if I had to choose, I’d say ortho.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: A lot of people are told early on to decide whether they’re more of a medicine person or a surgery person. What do you think about that?
Cameron: In our first semester, we had anatomy lab and worked with cadavers. You can go in once or twice a week, and you can go on weekends to study. That experience can quickly show you whether you’re cut out for surgery or not. For me, I had no problem with the cadaver lab. I actually thought it was great. Some people didn’t even want to touch a scalpel or look at the cadaver. I think that can be a big moment of clarification when you’re trying to figure out whether you want surgery or medicine.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Research is a huge topic now, especially with some exams being pass/fail. A lot of students ask, “How do I get an edge?” What would you recommend for someone who’s never done research before?
Cameron: I think it starts even before you get into school, and it also depends on the school you choose. If you know you want to go into surgery or another competitive specialty, you’re going to need research. Picking a school with a strong research department can help, but if your school doesn’t have a huge research department, it’s not the end of the world. My school doesn’t have the biggest research department, but that hasn’t stopped me from getting meaningful experience. I reached out to local physicians, which really helped me gain both clinical and research experience. I also contacted a research advisor. If you want a competitive specialty, ask questions, put yourself out there, and get involved early.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What are some of the competitive specialties now? Are they still the same as they used to be?
Cameron: From what I’ve seen, they’re pretty much the same: orthopedic surgery, neurosurgery, dermatology, ENT, and things like that. But at the same time, all specialties are competitive in their own way. I wouldn’t let the “competitive versus noncompetitive” label sway your opinion too much. We have physicians on our campus trained in family medicine, which people often think of as less competitive, but if you’re going into family medicine you need to be an expert in everything.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Let’s talk about tuition. Medical school is expensive, and people get really nervous about that. What options are out there?
Cameron: A lot of people are going to take out loans. There are private loans and federal loans. If you’re able to pay for medical school yourself, obviously that’s ideal, but I think the vast majority of students are taking out loans. I took out federal loans, including Graduate PLUS loans, and that’s what a lot of people do. In terms of choosing a school, I would try to pick the one that makes the most financial sense for you. The cheapest tuition is often going to be in your best interest long term.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: And what about in-state tuition? Is that still a big factor?
Cameron: I think it depends on the school. A lot of private schools will have a flat rate no matter where you’re from, but bigger public institutions can definitely have that in-state advantage.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What has been the most difficult part of medical school for you so far?
Cameron: Probably just remaining consistent. That’s the biggest part of being successful in medical school: having that continual grind and grit even when things are difficult. It’s hard every day to wake up early, go to bed late, and keep studying, but that consistency is what adds up.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: How do you bounce back when things aren’t going well? What do you do for your mental health?
Cameron: Medical school is definitely draining, and taking care of your mental health often gets put on the back burner, especially early on. Some things that work for me are leaning on my support system, knowing when to call family or friends, or just having dinner with someone. Exercise helps me a lot too. I grew up as a distance runner, so going for runs clears my head. I also try to eat as healthy as I can, even though that’s hard when you’re studying and surrounded by quick, unhealthy options. If you don’t take care of yourself, your grades probably won’t be as high as you want them to be. At the same time, don’t use a mental health break as an excuse to completely slack off. Sometimes the best self-care is doing the thing you don’t want to do, like studying for the test or doing the extra flashcards. You have to know yourself, know when you need a break, and lean on your support systems.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Have you had to make sacrifices in medical school? Birthdays, weddings, family things, relationships?
Cameron: Definitely. I’ve missed weddings, I’ve missed travel, and I’ve also had to deal with the challenge of long-distance relationships. There’s just an inherent amount of sacrifice that comes with medical school and medicine in general. I think if you can remind yourself why you’re doing this in the first place, it helps take away some of the guilt that comes with missing those big events. At our school we even have a term called “golden weekends,” which are basically two days where you have no responsibilities and can just be a normal person for a little while. That kind of shows how much sacrifice is involved.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: A lot of people focus so hard on grades that they forget there’s more to becoming a good doctor than just test scores. What traits do you think matter besides grades?
Cameron: Grades are important. Board scores are important too. But they’re not the most important things. I think people can lose sight of how to be personable and how to just have a normal conversation. Your personality matters a lot, especially when it comes to matching into residency. My advice would be to be yourself, lean on your hobbies, lean on your support system, have fun where you can, and don’t take yourself too seriously.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: On the flip side, what are you most excited about over the next couple of years?
Cameron: I’m super excited for third-year clinical rotations and getting to interact with patients and providers again. Right now I’m grinding through second year and board prep every day, and sometimes I lose sight of why I wanted to do medicine in the first place. For me, that’s helping people. I’m really looking forward to getting that feeling back in third year and just trying to become the best physician I can be. I’m not looking too far ahead. I’m focused on what’s right in front of me.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What does third year look like for students who are headed there soon?
Cameron: Third year is when you start your clinical rotations. That usually means about a month in a specialty at a time, rotating through areas like family medicine, emergency medicine, surgery, and others. You’re basically shadowing and learning from physicians in those specialties, and then you take shelf exams that are tied to those rotations. Traditionally, the end of third year is also when you take Step 2 or Level 2. Since Step 1 and Level 1 are now pass/fail, a lot more pressure gets placed on that next exam because it’s the big scored one.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: When do you think someone really has to decide on a specialty? When is the latest point where they need to know?
Cameron: I think once you start doing clinical rotations in that specialty, you find out pretty quickly whether you’re cut out for it or not. I plan on doing multiple surgical rotations, and different types of surgery too, just to make sure I know what I want. That can even spill into fourth year with leftover rotations. So I’d say ask as many questions as you can during third year and use that time to figure out whether the specialty is a good fit.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What’s one habit every pre-med should build right now? And looking back, is there anything from your pre-med years you would change to better prepare for medical school?
Cameron: Consistency, for sure. I’ll also say my first year in college was pretty rough because I was very focused on running. Academics were on the back burner at first. Once I started dedicating real time to academics, that’s when I learned how to study and how to apply myself. I’d also say that during my post-graduate years, when I was getting clinical experience, I really learned how to study because I finally had a reason behind what I was learning. Once I could connect what I was studying to real patients, that’s when the light bulb flipped for me. I’d go home and read more about the diseases and situations I saw that day. That made a huge difference.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Rapid fire. What’s one thing pre-meds worry about that doesn’t matter as much as they think?
Cameron: Not doing well in one class. If you get a B or a C, or even fail a class, it’s not automatically the end of the world. I know people who failed multiple classes and still got into medical school. It also comes back to not being too hard on yourself.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: What’s one thing pre-meds don’t worry about enough?
Cameron: Getting experience. Experience is one of the best teachers. If I hadn’t worked as an EMT before medical school, I don’t know if I’d be doing as well now. When I’m learning about topics in school, I’m able to relate them back to things I actually experienced as an EMT or as a scribe. So I’d say: take experience seriously.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Best advice you’ve ever received about medicine or medical school?
Cameron: Don’t be so serious. Just be a person. At the end of the day, we’re all in this together. Don’t be so hard on yourself. Give yourself some grace.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: One more question. When you were applying, did you notice a lot of competitiveness between students? Does your class feel collaborative or cutthroat?
Cameron: I think it definitely depends on the school. At my school, I’d say it’s pretty collaborative. We share a lot of resources, and people study in groups, including me. I don’t think anyone is trying to sabotage anybody. I’ve heard stories from other schools, but I think the best thing you can do is find a group you trust and lean on them for support.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Anything else you’d add for pre-med students or first-year medical students?
Cameron: Get experience as early as you can. Shadow physicians, get exposure, and connect what you’re seeing to what you’re learning. In my experience, that has been one of the best teachers, and it’s probably my number one piece of advice.
Dr. Tracye Lawyer: Thank you so much, Cameron. This was awesome. I really appreciate your time.
Cameron: Absolutely. Thank you very much for having me.
